26 more hours

Question:

Bon Voyage, Joyce. I know you will have a ball. Tucker in Texas

Response:

What a trip! This sounds wonderful! Can’t wait to hear all about it when you return. Jo-Ann

Response:

Joyce, Have a wonderful Cruise. I can’t wait to hear about it when you return. Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

Joyce: That is some trip…is Mom joining you? Bon Voyage! Eddie—> Its high summer in South America now! You should see the midnight sun in Antartica now!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In about 26 hours I leave for the airport. Off to Rio and meeting up > with the Amsterdam for a lovely 21 day cruise of South America and > Antarctica. > Try to be nice to eachother while I’m gone. > Joyce–> Flying down to Rio > — > "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." – The Talmud > "People demand the freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of > thought which > they avoid" – Kierkegaard > "Software without support is hardware" – JR/1999

Response:

In about 26 hours I leave for the airport. Off to Rio and meeting up with the Amsterdam for a lovely 21 day cruise of South America and Antarctica. Try to be nice to eachother while I’m gone. Joyce–> Flying down to Rio — "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." – The Talmud "People demand the freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid" – Kierkegaard "Software without support is hardware" – JR/1999

Response:

Joyce: That is some trip…is Mom joining you? Bon Voyage! Eddie—> Its high summer in South America now! You should see the midnight sun in Antartica now!

Response:

Bon Voyage, Joyce. I know you will have a ball. Tucker in Texas

Response:

What a trip! This sounds wonderful! Can’t wait to hear all about it when you return. Jo-Ann

Response:

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In: Business Consultant

Disappointed-Bermuda and RCCL?

Question:

> I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne.

I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the entire season. sue

Response:

BAYONNE! Do you actually have to go that rathole to get a cruise?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne.

Response:

> > I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne. > I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails > from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the > entire season. > sue

Horizon will be sailing from Norfolk, starting in May or June 2005 Ira J. Scheer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next >>summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from >>Bayonne. >I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails >from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the >entire season. >sue > Horizon will be sailing from Norfolk, starting in May or June 2005

Looks like it switches to Philly in July and stays there for the rest of the Bermuda season. sue

Response:

The Bermuda sailing will stay for Summer 2005. Zenith from Port Liberty, NJ and Horizon from Philly. Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

I was doing some ‘homework’ planning to return to Bermuda in 2005. It seems like the Empress of the Seas will not be sailing to Bermuda from Bayonne next year? Rather the Voyager will be doing the run on a 5-night itinerary instead? I like the VOS and wouldn’t mind sailing her again, but much prefer the Nordic a.k.a. Empress OTS since she used to dock in Hamilton. Wondering why RCL has made this change? Len…

Response:

> I was doing some ‘homework’ planning to return to Bermuda in 2005. It > seems like the Empress of the Seas will not be sailing to Bermuda from > Bayonne next year? Rather the Voyager will be doing the run on a 5-night > itinerary instead? I like the VOS and wouldn’t mind sailing her again, > but much prefer the Nordic a.k.a. Empress OTS since she used to dock in > Hamilton. Wondering why RCL has made this change?

The problem with the VOS in Bermuda is that it can "only" dock at the Dockyards. She is too big to be able to go to Hamilton or St Georges. Why not try the Zenith, she sails out of Bayonne now and goes to Hamilton and St. George. sue

Response:

I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from Bayonne.

Response:

I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from Bayonne.

Response:

> I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne.

I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the entire season. sue

Response:

BAYONNE! Do you actually have to go that rathole to get a cruise?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne.

Response:

Horizon will be sailing from Norfolk, starting in May or June 2005 Ira J. Scheer

Response:

Looks like it switches to Philly in July and stays there for the rest of the Bermuda season. sue

Response:

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In: Business Consultant

26 more hours

Question:

Bon Voyage, Joyce. I know you will have a ball. Tucker in Texas

Response:

What a trip! This sounds wonderful! Can’t wait to hear all about it when you return. Jo-Ann

Response:

Joyce: That is some trip…is Mom joining you? Bon Voyage! Eddie—> Its high summer in South America now! You should see the midnight sun in Antartica now!

Response:

Joyce: That is some trip…is Mom joining you? Bon Voyage! Eddie—> Its high summer in South America now! You should see the midnight sun in Antartica now!

Response:

Bon Voyage, Joyce. I know you will have a ball. Tucker in Texas

Response:

What a trip! This sounds wonderful! Can’t wait to hear all about it when you return. Jo-Ann

Response:

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In: Business Consultant

Need Bahamas Help

Question:

Sorry for the OT post, but I figure someone here can help point me in the right direction. Looking to spend 4 days/3nights in Bahamas – most likely Paradise Island in January. Anyone know of a good website to browse that gives good reviews of Atlantis and Cable Beach area hotels??- having trouble figuring out where to go/stay. TIA, Sandy K.

Response:

Try www.epinions.com for reviews of the hotels. Clint Free Spirit Gallery http://www.FreeSpiritGallery.ca Exquisite Eskimo Inuit Art & Northwest Indian Art

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry for the OT post, but I figure someone here can help point me in the > right direction. Looking to spend 4 days/3nights in Bahamas – most likely > Paradise Island in January. > Anyone know of a good website to browse that gives good reviews of > Atlantis > and Cable Beach area hotels??- having trouble figuring out where to > go/stay. > TIA, > Sandy K.

Response:

http://www.debbiescaribbeanresortreviews.com/bahamas/bahamas.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry for the OT post, but I figure someone here can help point me in the > right direction. Looking to spend 4 days/3nights in Bahamas – most likely > Paradise Island in January. > Anyone know of a good website to browse that gives good reviews of Atlantis > and Cable Beach area hotels??- having trouble figuring out where to go/stay. > TIA, > Sandy K.

Response:

You may want to ask this question to Tom & Linda. Tom is the resident Bahamas/Bermuda expert. Fred

Response:

Take a look at www.tripadvisor.com They have lots of trip reports re hotels / resorts in the Bahamas. Andrea

Response:

Hi, If you are not going with Children, A wonderful Hotel would be Sandals Royal Bahamian. It’s all inclusive and in the long run will cost you a lot less than Atlantis. All food, drinks, watersports are included.It’s Adults only. To take a tour go to www.islandperfect.com Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

Try www.epinions.com for reviews of the hotels. Clint Free Spirit Gallery http://www.FreeSpiritGallery.ca Exquisite Eskimo Inuit Art & Northwest Indian Art

Response:

http://www.debbiescaribbeanresortreviews.com/bahamas/bahamas.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry for the OT post, but I figure someone here can help point me in the > right direction. Looking to spend 4 days/3nights in Bahamas – most likely > Paradise Island in January. > Anyone know of a good website to browse that gives good reviews of Atlantis > and Cable Beach area hotels??- having trouble figuring out where to go/stay. > TIA, > Sandy K.

Response:

You may want to ask this question to Tom & Linda. Tom is the resident Bahamas/Bermuda expert. Fred

Response:

Take a look at www.tripadvisor.com They have lots of trip reports re hotels / resorts in the Bahamas. Andrea

Response:

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In: Business Consultant

Need Bahamas Help

Question:

Response:

Try www.epinions.com for reviews of the hotels. Clint Free Spirit Gallery http://www.FreeSpiritGallery.ca Exquisite Eskimo Inuit Art & Northwest Indian Art

Response:

http://www.debbiescaribbeanresortreviews.com/bahamas/bahamas.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry for the OT post, but I figure someone here can help point me in the > right direction. Looking to spend 4 days/3nights in Bahamas – most likely > Paradise Island in January. > Anyone know of a good website to browse that gives good reviews of Atlantis > and Cable Beach area hotels??- having trouble figuring out where to go/stay. > TIA, > Sandy K.

Response:

You may want to ask this question to Tom & Linda. Tom is the resident Bahamas/Bermuda expert. Fred

Response:

Take a look at www.tripadvisor.com They have lots of trip reports re hotels / resorts in the Bahamas. Andrea

Response:

Try www.epinions.com for reviews of the hotels. Clint Free Spirit Gallery http://www.FreeSpiritGallery.ca Exquisite Eskimo Inuit Art & Northwest Indian Art

Response:

http://www.debbiescaribbeanresortreviews.com/bahamas/bahamas.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry for the OT post, but I figure someone here can help point me in the > right direction. Looking to spend 4 days/3nights in Bahamas – most likely > Paradise Island in January. > Anyone know of a good website to browse that gives good reviews of Atlantis > and Cable Beach area hotels??- having trouble figuring out where to go/stay. > TIA, > Sandy K.

Response:

You may want to ask this question to Tom & Linda. Tom is the resident Bahamas/Bermuda expert. Fred

Response:

Take a look at www.tripadvisor.com They have lots of trip reports re hotels / resorts in the Bahamas. Andrea

Response:

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In: Business Consultant

Possible NAMM AGB summit

Question:

We just booked a great room today. There are rooms available. We didn’t go through NAMM though. Steve, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ll be there. >If someone plans a get together…let me know. >I booked the reservations 2 months ago. >There wasn’t much left for hotels. >Last one I was at three years ago I rolled into town the afternoon >before and got an ok motel 3 blocks away for $45-ish a night. There >are so many rooms close I wonder if getting one last minute is really >an issue? Being after the holidays when folks have spent their money >takes some of the tourists out of play… >More I think about it the more I think I deed a vacation. >jeffb >"What other people think of me is none of my business" > -Dorthy Parker

Response:

>I hate NAMM shows. Nothing I hate more than having all the musical >equipment my wife won’t let me buy dangled in front of my face.

Sounds like misdirected hatred to me. Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

> Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > jokes.

I’m planning on going, but as a drummer. I’ll be acting as a buyer for a drum shop. Glenn D.

Response:

>I’ll be there. >If someone plans a get together…let me know. >I booked the reservations 2 months ago. >There wasn’t much left for hotels.

Last one I was at three years ago I rolled into town the afternoon before and got an ok motel 3 blocks away for $45-ish a night. There are so many rooms close I wonder if getting one last minute is really an issue? Being after the holidays when folks have spent their money takes some of the tourists out of play… More I think about it the more I think I deed a vacation. jeffb "What other people think of me is none of my business" -Dorthy Parker

Response:

Awesome. We will all hook up then. I’ll keep you posted. We’ll have to keep the drummer jokes to a minimum then. Steve, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > jokes. >I’m planning on going, but as a drummer. I’ll be acting as a buyer for a >drum shop. >Glenn D.

Response:

I just got The Pit registered as "Media" today…no more scrounging passes!! Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

I hate NAMM shows. Nothing I hate more than having all the musical equipment my wife won’t let me buy dangled in front of my face.

Response:

Banjo AND singer jokes. I’ll let you know once I have my schedule worked out. Steve, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > jokes. > Anyone game? > Steve, eh? >You’ve managed to escape again this year? >Excellent. >I’ll be there of course…part of the day job! >Can we do banjo jokes as well? >When and where?

Response:

I’m in Canada myself…. planes can take you just about anywhere! Steve, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > jokes. > Anyone game? > Steve, eh? >Sigh! You lucky ppl! I wish I was in the US! >/Anna

Response:

You should come! Steve, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nothing like teasing me, eh Steve? > Scott > >Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > >meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > >jokes. > >Anyone game? > >Steve, eh? > Where? > Pt

Response:

I’ll be there. If someone plans a get together…let me know. I booked the reservations 2 months ago. There wasn’t much left for hotels. Jay S

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > jokes. > Anyone game? > Steve, eh?

Response:

I believe we have a hotel – i have a friend who is booking for me. Once we have our schedule organized, we can pick a place. Steve, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I just talked to my pal who works for the TC (electronics) group and >if he decides he needs to attend I’ll ride the bike down Hwy #1. >I dunno ’bout anyone else but I’m ready to put some faces to some >names over a few cocktails in Anaheim… >You booked a motel yet? >jeffb >"What other people think of me is none of my business" > -Dorthy Parker

Response:

> I just talked to my pal who works for the TC (electronics) group and > if he decides he needs to attend I’ll ride the bike down Hwy #1. > I dunno ’bout anyone else but I’m ready to put some faces to some > names over a few cocktails in Anaheim… > You booked a motel yet?

My best friend lives in Irvine, so I’ve already got a place to stay. He’s moving back to Colorado next year though Glenn D.

Response:

Probably in a hotel bar or a local restaurant? Steve, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a >meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer >jokes. >Anyone game? >Steve, eh? >Where? >Pt

Response:

> I’m in Canada myself…. planes can take you just about anywhere! > Steve, eh?

You’re right I will go once, but probably not next month (LOL!)… I need to be able to get a ticket though! Would be fun to meet up with all the AGB’s!!! /Anna — Anna M. Andersen AIM/Ichat account: Anna.Andersen http://homepage.mac.com/anna.andersen

Response:

Go to www.namm.com and read about it there. Steve, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > jokes. > Anyone game? > Steve, eh? >How do you get tix to this event anyway?

Response:

> Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > jokes. > Anyone game? > Steve, eh?

Sigh! You lucky ppl! I wish I was in the US! /Anna — Anna M. Andersen AIM/Ichat account: Anna.Andersen http://homepage.mac.com/anna.andersen

Response:

> Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > jokes. > Anyone game? > Steve, eh?

You’ve managed to escape again this year? Excellent. I’ll be there of course…part of the day job! Can we do banjo jokes as well? When and where? — Clive Norris Selectron (UK) Ltd Musical Equipment Distribution www.espguitars.co.uk www.espshop.co.uk www.emgpickups.co.uk www.emginc.com www.whirlwindusa.com www.deanmarkley.com www.mightymite.com www.tube-shop.com

Response:

im in… will be by Alleva~Coppolo /DR booth

Response:

I just talked to my pal who works for the TC (electronics) group and if he decides he needs to attend I’ll ride the bike down Hwy #1. I dunno ’bout anyone else but I’m ready to put some faces to some names over a few cocktails in Anaheim… You booked a motel yet? jeffb "What other people think of me is none of my business" -Dorthy Parker

Response:

I’ll be there…better book soon because I got the last room at the Jolly Roger about a month ago. Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

>Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a >meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer >jokes. >Anyone game? >Steve, eh?

Where? Pt

Response:

Nothing like teasing me, eh Steve? Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a >meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer >jokes. >Anyone game? >Steve, eh? > Where? > Pt

Response:

Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer jokes. Anyone game? Steve, eh?

Response:

> Anyone coming to NAMM this January? If so, I think we should set up a > meeting somewhere and chat amongst ourselves – maybe even tell drummer > jokes. > Anyone game? > Steve, eh?

How do you get tix to this event anyway?

Response:

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In: Business Plans

One last time…Carnival Valor 12/26

Question:

Anyone out there going? I’ve found two! And lost one address. Could the nice lady who emailed me please write back?? Heather

Response:

Heather. Go to www.cruisecritic.com Hit Boards and then Hit Roll calls Carnival Cruise Lines. Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

Anyone out there going? I’ve found two! And lost one address. Could the nice lady who emailed me please write back?? Heather

Response:

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In: Business Consultant

One last time…Carnival Valor 12/26

Question:

Anyone out there going? I’ve found two! And lost one address. Could the nice lady who emailed me please write back?? Heather

Response:

Anyone out there going? I’ve found two! And lost one address. Could the nice lady who emailed me please write back?? Heather

Response:

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In: Business Consultant

USAirways

Question:

Responsible future plans or wishful thinking….? US Airways Unveils Nonstop Service to Venice and Barcelona Wednesday November 17, 12:27 pm ET Summer 2005 Schedule Includes 13 Nonstop European Destinations http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041117/dcw034_1.html

Response:

Gate spaces they can sell if they need to.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Responsible future plans or wishful thinking….? > US Airways Unveils Nonstop Service to Venice and Barcelona > Wednesday November 17, 12:27 pm ET > Summer 2005 Schedule Includes 13 Nonstop European Destinations > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041117/dcw034_1.html

Response:

> Responsible future plans or wishful thinking….? > US Airways Unveils Nonstop Service to Venice and Barcelona > Wednesday November 17, 12:27 pm ET > Summer 2005 Schedule Includes 13 Nonstop European Destinations > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041117/dcw034_1.html

I would not book anything on US Air right now. sue

Response:

Nor would I, ever. We just got back from a cruise on the Regal Princess, 13 days, Montreal to Fort Lauderdale. Our flight home to California was booked by Princess on USair. We changed planes in Charlotte, NC. Our TA had gotten us aisle seats on both flights. When we got our boarding passes in FLL, we had middle and window seats on both flights. Someone at USair had given our seats away. Never again. Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Responsible future plans or wishful thinking….? > US Airways Unveils Nonstop Service to Venice and Barcelona > Wednesday November 17, 12:27 pm ET > Summer 2005 Schedule Includes 13 Nonstop European Destinations > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041117/dcw034_1.html > I would not book anything on US Air right now. > sue

Response:

> Our TA had gotten us aisle seats on both flights. When we got our > boarding passes in FLL, we had middle and window seats on both > flights. Someone at USair had given our seats away. Never again.

Other airlines will also change your seats. American and Continental Airlines have both done this to me. Fortunately, it does not happen very often. Becca <—–hoping USAirways will survive…. MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/ Miracle in May http://www.cruisemaster.com/miracle.htm

Response:

> Nor would I, ever. We just got back from a cruise on the Regal Princess, > 13 days, Montreal to Fort Lauderdale. Our flight home to California was > booked by Princess on USair. We changed planes in Charlotte, NC. Our TA had > gotten us aisle seats on both flights. When we got our boarding passes in > FLL, we had middle and window seats on both flights. Someone at USair had > given our seats away. Never again.

On our recent US Air flights we had our flights changed and also our seats changed. Both of our flights homw from the cruise were overbooked, my guess is that they were overbooked because they have been eliminating flights. sue

Response:

>> Our TA had gotten us aisle seats on both flights. When we got our > boarding passes in FLL, we had middle and window seats on both > flights. Someone at USair had given our seats away. Never again. > Other airlines will also change your seats. American and Continental > Airlines have both done this to me. Fortunately, it does not happen > very often.

I know that other airlines do this also, but not as frequently as US Air is doing it nowadays. sue

Response:

Wonder if U.S.AIR is conning people,we have booked flight’s and we are supposed to return to philly 12/5/04,flight attendents are talking strike ,but not sure when,a little leery about booking another cruise til we find out what airline we can use,some of the no frills airlines do not fly everywhere. surfer e 2468

Response:

a Gingko, electronically interjected: >Responsible future plans or wishful thinking….? >US Airways Unveils Nonstop Service to Venice and Barcelona >Wednesday November 17, 12:27 pm ET >Summer 2005 Schedule Includes 13 Nonstop European Destinations >http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041117/dcw034_1.html

Business News Today: K-Mart to Buy Sears. Who woulda thunk? If that’s possible then anything is possible. Still I wouldn’t hold my breath on this one. — To email me, Edit "xt" from my email address. Brian M. Kochera "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!" View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

Response:

Are there in fact "frill airlines"?

Response:

>Are there in fact "frill airlines"?

Thai, Jamaca, Singapore to think of three. — dillon "When the French are against it, you know we can’t be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman

Response:

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In: Business Plans

Semi-OT: Pro Musicians and Health Insurance?

Question:

> 1) Actually, America is quite diverse, socially economically, ethnically, > geographically and economically. > The population makeup, density, income, and type of health care concerns in > say, Los Angeles may not necessarily exist in South Dakota. > I think it would be foolish to try and create an overarching system to meet > everyone’s needs. And it would be even more foolish to try and get that > monolith through Congress.

Cancer is cancer, no matter where, no matter who. I don’t mind our overarching Fire Dept. > And it’s a lot more complicated than just walking into a doctor. Even if the > states just got block grants apportioned according to Federal rules, that > wouldn’t begin to take into account the unique needs of the states. What > about a rural state with a small population that suddenly sees an explosion > in meth users? How will they pay for the treatment centers? How would a > state like Florida cope with the needs of an aging population who migrated > there from other states? You either need to pump more money into the system, > let them make do with what they have, or cut from other programs to make up > the difference. None of these fixes are politically healthy.

Granted, it’s not polically healthy. It is too simple. I did, however, live in a country with universal healthcare for five years and I’m here to report that it was just find. > IMO, people are the best judges of the healthcare they need and want. I’d > rather see individual choice and limited government help, rather than a > massive blanket plan trying to be all things to all people.

I don’t think too many folks who would "choose" to be saddeled with a $50,000.00 medical bill. I could be wrong. > 2) How can you say socialized medicine is cheaper? What’s the VAT these > days, 20%? Socialized ANYTHING is more expensive because of a) the problems > I mentioned above b) there is no competition to drive prices down.

You save 8% of our GNP by simply taking the insurance companies out of the picture. They’re not in the business of paying for medical care. They’re in the business of making money. Could we bring down the price of war by privatizing the armed forces? Hey, there’s a thought. > I fucking HATE insurance companies with a passion. But forced competition > among them is to me far better than paying some government (read: AMA lobby) > dictated scale. And make no mistake, we’ll stil be paying for it. > Now, I’m not some wacko neo-con preaching on the evils of socialism. It’s > simply a choice that societies make – do we as a country want to pay more up > front for governmental guarantees, or do we want to obtain what we need on > our own with limited government interference, and more money in pocket? > This country was founded on the latter, so socialism is kind of a hard sell > here.

I don’t think you are a neo-con, John. In fact, I agree with many of your posts. > Nor is this a racial thing. Americans of all colors and social classes have > been clashing over this issue – sometimes very violently – since the 19th > century.

Well, I didn’t think this one up. Many political writers have offered this theory. There are some compelling arguements. > Last, Ill say this: if Clinton had chosen to work within the existing > healthcare framework instead of reinventing the wheel, we’d most likely have > some form of government subsidized healthcare today. Or at least I wouldn’t > have bill collectors treating me like a deadbeat, as if I went on a kidney > transplant spending spree.

Now that’s funny. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm > "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion > and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." > – Mark Twain > > Not a fan of socialized medicine, but I’m not by any means putting it > down. > > I’d much rather my tax dollars go to that that the current neo-con > insanity. > > IMO, the problems with national healthcare in the US are basically: > > 1) America is way too large and diverse for a "one size fits all" > national > > health care system. > How many "plans" do you need? You get sick, you go to the Dr. You need > an operation, you go to the Dr. I suppose we could devise a "plan" for > people who would like to walk sideways into the doc’s office. > > 2) there are too many powerful private interests allied against any > attempt > > at national healthcare or capping costs. Just look what happened to > Clinton > > in his first term. > Agreed > > 3) we spend way to much on national defense and corporate welfare to > have > > the luxury of sponsoring full blown free health care. Given our current > > precarious debt situation, it wouldn’t be wise to pile more on. > Socialized health care is far cheaper than our system. Just think for a > moment. You don’t have to pay off any sleazy insurance agent in a suit > who trying to make a buck off your liver. Please think hard on this > one. I’ll say it again. Socialized health care is far cheaper than our > system. You can lookk it up. This why the rest of the world thinks > we’re so fucking stupid. > > 4) Most importantly, Americans just don’t want it. If they did, we’d > have > > had free healthcare long ago. Rightly or wrongly Americans have looked > at > > the incredibly high taxes associated with socialized countries and > decided > > it’s not worth it. > No incredibly high taxes. Read above. If this country were 100% white, > we would have had universal healthcare 50 years ago. > > However that’s not to say we can’t come up with a workable plan that > fits > > into our existing private healthcare framework: > All good ideas below. But it could all be handled in a much simpler > way. Just socialize healthcare. Do I think it will happen? Nah. Too > simple. > > We could offer sliding scale subsidies for doctor bills based on income. > > We could have the government pay part of a private health insurance > premium, > > again based on income. > > We could mandate that self-employed and uninsured workers be offered > group > > plans at the same rates. > > We could drastically shorten the time on exclusive drug patents, and > allow > > foreign pharmacies to do business here again, thereby spurring > competition > > and bringing prices down. > > Just a few things off the top of my head. Do I think any of them will > happen > > anytime soon? Nah. > > — > > Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm > > "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning > religion > > and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." > > – Mark Twain > > > > Actually, that’s the problem we’re having now. My wife’s insurance > > offers a > > > > "Family Plan" at $350 per month. Only problem is, a "family" is one > > person > > > > or 20 people. Since we don’t have kids, I’d be paying $350 a month > for > > so-so > > > > coverage just for myself. Can’t do it. > > > > IMO group coverage is the way to go. Spreading the risk among the > group > > is > > > > much better than watching your insurance double because you were > dumb > > enough > > > > to use it. When I had "advantage" insurance, I still paid for a lot > of > > stuff > > > > out of pocket just to keep it out of the system. > > > > Not to get on a soapbox, but we could go a long way toward closing > the > > > > health insurance gap just by requiring those classed as > self-employed or > > > > self-paying to be disbursed within the group health insurance > system. > > > > — > > > > Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm > > > > "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning > > religion > > > > and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." > > > > – Mark Twain > > > > > > Whoo, I’m OK now. Unless you can afford to lay out some serious > > cash, > > > > > health > > > > > > insurance options for self-employed professionals in the US > pretty > > much > > > > > > suck. > > > > > I can tell you all about that. It’s not as bad as some would have > you > > > > > think, actually. I have pretty standard coverage, for a family of > > five, > > > > and > > > > > it runs me just a shade under $400 per month. The biggest problem > > with it > > > > > is that you enroll for insurance, get in a "pool", and as the > "pool"’s > > > > > claims experience increases, your premium goes up. When it gets > up to > > a > > > > > point where you can’t afford it any more, you have to re-apply. > Each > > time > > > > > you re-apply, you get "rated" for any pre-existing conditions that > > arose > > > > > during the last policy, and you either have a waiting period for > > claims on > > > > > those conditions, or coverage is excluded

Response:

1) Actually, America is quite diverse, socially economically, ethnically, geographically and economically. The population makeup, density, income, and type of health care concerns in say, Los Angeles may not necessarily exist in South Dakota. I think it would be foolish to try and create an overarching system to meet everyone’s needs. And it would be even more foolish to try and get that monolith through Congress. And it’s a lot more complicated than just walking into a doctor. Even if the states just got block grants apportioned according to Federal rules, that wouldn’t begin to take into account the unique needs of the states. What about a rural state with a small population that suddenly sees an explosion in meth users? How will they pay for the treatment centers? How would a state like Florida cope with the needs of an aging population who migrated there from other states? You either need to pump more money into the system, let them make do with what they have, or cut from other programs to make up the difference. None of these fixes are politically healthy. IMO, people are the best judges of the healthcare they need and want. I’d rather see individual choice and limited government help, rather than a massive blanket plan trying to be all things to all people. 2) How can you say socialized medicine is cheaper? What’s the VAT these days, 20%? Socialized ANYTHING is more expensive because of a) the problems I mentioned above b) there is no competition to drive prices down. I fucking HATE insurance companies with a passion. But forced competition among them is to me far better than paying some government (read: AMA lobby) dictated scale. And make no mistake, we’ll stil be paying for it. Now, I’m not some wacko neo-con preaching on the evils of socialism. It’s simply a choice that societies make – do we as a country want to pay more up front for governmental guarantees, or do we want to obtain what we need on our own with limited government interference, and more money in pocket? This country was founded on the latter, so socialism is kind of a hard sell here. Nor is this a racial thing. Americans of all colors and social classes have been clashing over this issue – sometimes very violently – since the 19th century. Last, Ill say this: if Clinton had chosen to work within the existing healthcare framework instead of reinventing the wheel, we’d most likely have some form of government subsidized healthcare today. Or at least I wouldn’t have bill collectors treating me like a deadbeat, as if I went on a kidney transplant spending spree. — Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." – Mark Twain

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Not a fan of socialized medicine, but I’m not by any means putting it down. > I’d much rather my tax dollars go to that that the current neo-con insanity. > IMO, the problems with national healthcare in the US are basically: > 1) America is way too large and diverse for a "one size fits all" national > health care system. > How many "plans" do you need? You get sick, you go to the Dr. You need > an operation, you go to the Dr. I suppose we could devise a "plan" for > people who would like to walk sideways into the doc’s office. > 2) there are too many powerful private interests allied against any attempt > at national healthcare or capping costs. Just look what happened to Clinton > in his first term. > Agreed > 3) we spend way to much on national defense and corporate welfare to have > the luxury of sponsoring full blown free health care. Given our current > precarious debt situation, it wouldn’t be wise to pile more on. > Socialized health care is far cheaper than our system. Just think for a > moment. You don’t have to pay off any sleazy insurance agent in a suit > who trying to make a buck off your liver. Please think hard on this > one. I’ll say it again. Socialized health care is far cheaper than our > system. You can lookk it up. This why the rest of the world thinks > we’re so fucking stupid. > 4) Most importantly, Americans just don’t want it. If they did, we’d have > had free healthcare long ago. Rightly or wrongly Americans have looked at > the incredibly high taxes associated with socialized countries and decided > it’s not worth it. > No incredibly high taxes. Read above. If this country were 100% white, > we would have had universal healthcare 50 years ago. > However that’s not to say we can’t come up with a workable plan that fits > into our existing private healthcare framework: > All good ideas below. But it could all be handled in a much simpler > way. Just socialize healthcare. Do I think it will happen? Nah. Too > simple. > We could offer sliding scale subsidies for doctor bills based on income. > We could have the government pay part of a private health insurance premium, > again based on income. > We could mandate that self-employed and uninsured workers be offered group > plans at the same rates. > We could drastically shorten the time on exclusive drug patents, and allow > foreign pharmacies to do business here again, thereby spurring competition > and bringing prices down. > Just a few things off the top of my head. Do I think any of them will happen > anytime soon? Nah. > — > Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm > "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion > and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." > – Mark Twain > > > Actually, that’s the problem we’re having now. My wife’s insurance > offers a > > > "Family Plan" at $350 per month. Only problem is, a "family" is one > person > > > or 20 people. Since we don’t have kids, I’d be paying $350 a month for > so-so > > > coverage just for myself. Can’t do it. > > > IMO group coverage is the way to go. Spreading the risk among the group > is > > > much better than watching your insurance double because you were dumb > enough > > > to use it. When I had "advantage" insurance, I still paid for a lot of > stuff > > > out of pocket just to keep it out of the system. > > > Not to get on a soapbox, but we could go a long way toward closing the > > > health insurance gap just by requiring those classed as self-employed or > > > self-paying to be disbursed within the group health insurance system. > > > — > > > Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm > > > "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning > religion > > > and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." > > > – Mark Twain > > > > > Whoo, I’m OK now. Unless you can afford to lay out some serious > cash, > > > > health > > > > > insurance options for self-employed professionals in the US pretty > much > > > > > suck. > > > > I can tell you all about that. It’s not as bad as some would have you > > > > think, actually. I have pretty standard coverage, for a family of > five, > > > and > > > > it runs me just a shade under $400 per month. The biggest problem > with it > > > > is that you enroll for insurance, get in a "pool", and as the "pool"’s > > > > claims experience increases, your premium goes up. When it gets up to > a > > > > point where you can’t afford it any more, you have to re-apply. Each > time > > > > you re-apply, you get "rated" for any pre-existing conditions that > arose > > > > during the last policy, and you either have a waiting period for > claims on > > > > those conditions, or coverage is excluded entirely. So far, that > hasn’t > > > > been a big problem for us, but as we get deeper into old-farthood, it > > > > probably will be. A young, single person can get basic coverage for > just > > > a > > > > couple hundred bucks. > > This wouldn’t be such a tortured and pretend issue if we simply had > > (yes, I’ll say it) socialized medicine. Oh, and please don’t respond by > > putting down "other" countries. I’ve lived in "other" countries and > > socialized medicine works just fine. Better, as a matter of fact, > > because you have ACCESS. Geesh!

Response:

> Not a fan of socialized medicine, but I’m not by any means putting it down. > I’d much rather my tax dollars go to that that the current neo-con insanity. > IMO, the problems with national healthcare in the US are basically: > 1) America is way too large and diverse for a "one size fits all" national > health care system.

How many "plans" do you need? You get sick, you go to the Dr. You need an operation, you go to the Dr. I suppose we could devise a "plan" for people who would like to walk sideways into the doc’s office. > 2) there are too many powerful private interests allied against any attempt > at national healthcare or capping costs. Just look what happened to Clinton > in his first term.

Agreed > 3) we spend way to much on national defense and corporate welfare to have > the luxury of sponsoring full blown free health care. Given our current > precarious debt situation, it wouldn’t be wise to pile more on.

Socialized health care is far cheaper than our system. Just think for a moment. You don’t have to pay off any sleazy insurance agent in a suit who trying to make a buck off your liver. Please think hard on this one. I’ll say it again. Socialized health care is far cheaper than our system. You can lookk it up. This why the rest of the world thinks we’re so fucking stupid. > 4) Most importantly, Americans just don’t want it. If they did, we’d have > had free healthcare long ago. Rightly or wrongly Americans have looked at > the incredibly high taxes associated with socialized countries and decided > it’s not worth it.

No incredibly high taxes. Read above. If this country were 100% white, we would have had universal healthcare 50 years ago. > However that’s not to say we can’t come up with a workable plan that fits > into our existing private healthcare framework:

All good ideas below. But it could all be handled in a much simpler way. Just socialize healthcare. Do I think it will happen? Nah. Too simple. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We could offer sliding scale subsidies for doctor bills based on income. > We could have the government pay part of a private health insurance premium, > again based on income. > We could mandate that self-employed and uninsured workers be offered group > plans at the same rates. > We could drastically shorten the time on exclusive drug patents, and allow > foreign pharmacies to do business here again, thereby spurring competition > and bringing prices down. > Just a few things off the top of my head. Do I think any of them will happen > anytime soon? Nah. > — > Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm > "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion > and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." > – Mark Twain > > Actually, that’s the problem we’re having now. My wife’s insurance > offers a > > "Family Plan" at $350 per month. Only problem is, a "family" is one > person > > or 20 people. Since we don’t have kids, I’d be paying $350 a month for > so-so > > coverage just for myself. Can’t do it. > > IMO group coverage is the way to go. Spreading the risk among the group > is > > much better than watching your insurance double because you were dumb > enough > > to use it. When I had "advantage" insurance, I still paid for a lot of > stuff > > out of pocket just to keep it out of the system. > > Not to get on a soapbox, but we could go a long way toward closing the > > health insurance gap just by requiring those classed as self-employed or > > self-paying to be disbursed within the group health insurance system. > > — > > Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm > > "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning > religion > > and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." > > – Mark Twain > > > > Whoo, I’m OK now. Unless you can afford to lay out some serious > cash, > > > health > > > > insurance options for self-employed professionals in the US pretty > much > > > > suck. > > > I can tell you all about that. It’s not as bad as some would have you > > > think, actually. I have pretty standard coverage, for a family of > five, > > and > > > it runs me just a shade under $400 per month. The biggest problem > with it > > > is that you enroll for insurance, get in a "pool", and as the "pool"’s > > > claims experience increases, your premium goes up. When it gets up to > a > > > point where you can’t afford it any more, you have to re-apply. Each > time > > > you re-apply, you get "rated" for any pre-existing conditions that > arose > > > during the last policy, and you either have a waiting period for > claims on > > > those conditions, or coverage is excluded entirely. So far, that > hasn’t > > > been a big problem for us, but as we get deeper into old-farthood, it > > > probably will be. A young, single person can get basic coverage for > just > > a > > > couple hundred bucks. > This wouldn’t be such a tortured and pretend issue if we simply had > (yes, I’ll say it) socialized medicine. Oh, and please don’t respond by > putting down "other" countries. I’ve lived in "other" countries and > socialized medicine works just fine. Better, as a matter of fact, > because you have ACCESS. Geesh!

Response:

> >> It is a complex issue, and the US economy is WAY >> harder to make this kind of thing happen than say in Sweden. > Why? Because we have black people? I detect something here.

No. B/c we have 250 million people, and healthcare is 1/7 of the economy, > and yes, the population here tends to be, say, unhealthy as compared to > Sweden (read obese).

That’s 250 million taxpayers, you dolt. Do you understand "exponential". > You were the one to go with the "black" thing. Shows where your head is at > (in your ass?).

Sorry. I’m part American Indian and wife is part African American. We tend to get unreasonably jittery. In America, that is. > It’s not really that complex. Insurance employees will just be > reassigned to work camps and pick up trash all day long. They could > even be allowed to form a union. Then we can turn oll those skyscraping > insurance headquarters (you know, the ones with the fountains and lovely > offices throughout) into public schools. It’s all about what you want > to spend your money on, man. > Your argument sounds SO mature, and well thoughtout. Thanks for that > valuable insight.

You’re very welcome. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Not a fan of socialized medicine, but I’m not by any means putting it down. I’d much rather my tax dollars go to that that the current neo-con insanity. IMO, the problems with national healthcare in the US are basically: 1) America is way too large and diverse for a "one size fits all" national health care system. 2) there are too many powerful private interests allied against any attempt at national healthcare or capping costs. Just look what happened to Clinton in his first term. 3) we spend way to much on national defense and corporate welfare to have the luxury of sponsoring full blown free health care. Given our current precarious debt situation, it wouldn’t be wise to pile more on. 4) Most importantly, Americans just don’t want it. If they did, we’d have had free healthcare long ago. Rightly or wrongly Americans have looked at the incredibly high taxes associated with socialized countries and decided it’s not worth it. However that’s not to say we can’t come up with a workable plan that fits into our existing private healthcare framework: We could offer sliding scale subsidies for doctor bills based on income. We could have the government pay part of a private health insurance premium, again based on income. We could mandate that self-employed and uninsured workers be offered group plans at the same rates. We could drastically shorten the time on exclusive drug patents, and allow foreign pharmacies to do business here again, thereby spurring competition and bringing prices down. Just a few things off the top of my head. Do I think any of them will happen anytime soon? Nah. — Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." – Mark Twain

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Actually, that’s the problem we’re having now. My wife’s insurance offers a > "Family Plan" at $350 per month. Only problem is, a "family" is one person > or 20 people. Since we don’t have kids, I’d be paying $350 a month for so-so > coverage just for myself. Can’t do it. > IMO group coverage is the way to go. Spreading the risk among the group is > much better than watching your insurance double because you were dumb enough > to use it. When I had "advantage" insurance, I still paid for a lot of stuff > out of pocket just to keep it out of the system. > Not to get on a soapbox, but we could go a long way toward closing the > health insurance gap just by requiring those classed as self-employed or > self-paying to be disbursed within the group health insurance system. > — > Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm > "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion > and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." > – Mark Twain > > > Whoo, I’m OK now. Unless you can afford to lay out some serious cash, > > health > > > insurance options for self-employed professionals in the US pretty much > > > suck. > > I can tell you all about that. It’s not as bad as some would have you > > think, actually. I have pretty standard coverage, for a family of five, > and > > it runs me just a shade under $400 per month. The biggest problem with it > > is that you enroll for insurance, get in a "pool", and as the "pool"’s > > claims experience increases, your premium goes up. When it gets up to a > > point where you can’t afford it any more, you have to re-apply. Each time > > you re-apply, you get "rated" for any pre-existing conditions that arose > > during the last policy, and you either have a waiting period for claims on > > those conditions, or coverage is excluded entirely. So far, that hasn’t > > been a big problem for us, but as we get deeper into old-farthood, it > > probably will be. A young, single person can get basic coverage for just > a > > couple hundred bucks. > This wouldn’t be such a tortured and pretend issue if we simply had > (yes, I’ll say it) socialized medicine. Oh, and please don’t respond by > putting down "other" countries. I’ve lived in "other" countries and > socialized medicine works just fine. Better, as a matter of fact, > because you have ACCESS. Geesh!

Response:

Well then you practice your "virtue" and leave the rest of us alone so that we may live a happy life. Do you flog yourself every night? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> We could also have a 15-20% unemployment rate too, just like "those >> other" >> industralized nations. > Oh c’com. They don’t lose their healthcare when they are unemployed. > And since they are socialists they conmpensate folks quite nicely. You > sit around at European cafes drinking wine and coffee all day. At night > you play music. So what! I, as an employed American, have to spend a > fortune to do that in Europe. > Sorry, most of us here don’t want a Nanny State. There is virtue in working > and earning your OWN way. > Believe me. NOBODY spends their time worrying that SOMEBODY is going to > get SOMETHING for free. > What is this? Some kind of theory you stayed up all night inventing. > Are you a Phil Oss Er Fer? >> >> > Yep. But it depends on which industry you’re in. Pro musicians don’t >> >> > tend to make as much as their self-employed counterparts in other >> >> > industries, so have a harder time affording healthcare. >> >> Well, sure, but at the same time, musicians take such good care of >> >> themselves that they rarely need medical attention. So, it all works >> >> out. >> > Since all industrialized countries, excluding the USA, have health >> > coverage for every citizen, it makes you wonder why ANY American >> > musician would vote Republican. Especially considering the fact that >> > we >> > (AMERICANS) pay twice the GNP for health care that other nations do, >> > just so people like musicians can suffer. Kind of weird, but there you >> > have it.

Response:

Actually, that’s the problem we’re having now. My wife’s insurance offers a "Family Plan" at $350 per month. Only problem is, a "family" is one person or 20 people. Since we don’t have kids, I’d be paying $350 a month for so-so coverage just for myself. Can’t do it. IMO group coverage is the way to go. Spreading the risk among the group is much better than watching your insurance double because you were dumb enough to use it. When I had "advantage" insurance, I still paid for a lot of stuff out of pocket just to keep it out of the system. Not to get on a soapbox, but we could go a long way toward closing the health insurance gap just by requiring those classed as self-employed or self-paying to be disbursed within the group health insurance system. — Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." – Mark Twain

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Whoo, I’m OK now. Unless you can afford to lay out some serious cash, > health > insurance options for self-employed professionals in the US pretty much > suck. > I can tell you all about that. It’s not as bad as some would have you > think, actually. I have pretty standard coverage, for a family of five, and > it runs me just a shade under $400 per month. The biggest problem with it > is that you enroll for insurance, get in a "pool", and as the "pool"’s > claims experience increases, your premium goes up. When it gets up to a > point where you can’t afford it any more, you have to re-apply. Each time > you re-apply, you get "rated" for any pre-existing conditions that arose > during the last policy, and you either have a waiting period for claims on > those conditions, or coverage is excluded entirely. So far, that hasn’t > been a big problem for us, but as we get deeper into old-farthood, it > probably will be. A young, single person can get basic coverage for just a > couple hundred bucks.

Response:

> We could also have a 15-20% unemployment rate too, just like "those > other" > industralized nations. > Oh c’com. They don’t lose their healthcare when they are unemployed. > And since they are socialists they conmpensate folks quite nicely. You > sit around at European cafes drinking wine and coffee all day. At night > you play music. So what! I, as an employed American, have to spend a > fortune to do that in Europe.

Sorry, most of us here don’t want a Nanny State. There is virtue in working and earning your OWN way. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Believe me. NOBODY spends their time worrying that SOMEBODY is going to > get SOMETHING for free. > What is this? Some kind of theory you stayed up all night inventing. > Are you a Phil Oss Er Fer? > >> > Yep. But it depends on which industry you’re in. Pro musicians don’t > >> > tend to make as much as their self-employed counterparts in other > >> > industries, so have a harder time affording healthcare. > >> Well, sure, but at the same time, musicians take such good care of > >> themselves that they rarely need medical attention. So, it all works > >> out. > > Since all industrialized countries, excluding the USA, have health > > coverage for every citizen, it makes you wonder why ANY American > > musician would vote Republican. Especially considering the fact that > > we > > (AMERICANS) pay twice the GNP for health care that other nations do, > > just so people like musicians can suffer. Kind of weird, but there you > > have it.

Response:

> It is a complex issue, and the US economy is WAY > harder to make this kind of thing happen than say in Sweden. > Why? Because we have black people? I detect something here.

No. B/c we have 250 million people, and healthcare is 1/7 of the economy, and yes, the population here tends to be, say, unhealthy as compared to Sweden (read obese). You were the one to go with the "black" thing. Shows where your head is at (in your ass?). > It’s not really that complex. Insurance employees will just be > reassigned to work camps and pick up trash all day long. They could > even be allowed to form a union. Then we can turn oll those skyscraping > insurance headquarters (you know, the ones with the fountains and lovely > offices throughout) into public schools. It’s all about what you want > to spend your money on, man.

Your argument sounds SO mature, and well thoughtout. Thanks for that valuable insight.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Actually, that’s the problem we’re having now. My wife’s insurance offers a > "Family Plan" at $350 per month. Only problem is, a "family" is one person > or 20 people. Since we don’t have kids, I’d be paying $350 a month for so-so > coverage just for myself. Can’t do it. > IMO group coverage is the way to go. Spreading the risk among the group is > much better than watching your insurance double because you were dumb enough > to use it. When I had "advantage" insurance, I still paid for a lot of stuff > out of pocket just to keep it out of the system. > Not to get on a soapbox, but we could go a long way toward closing the > health insurance gap just by requiring those classed as self-employed or > self-paying to be disbursed within the group health insurance system. > — > Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm > "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion > and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." > – Mark Twain > > Whoo, I’m OK now. Unless you can afford to lay out some serious cash, > health > > insurance options for self-employed professionals in the US pretty much > > suck. > I can tell you all about that. It’s not as bad as some would have you > think, actually. I have pretty standard coverage, for a family of five, > and > it runs me just a shade under $400 per month. The biggest problem with it > is that you enroll for insurance, get in a "pool", and as the "pool"’s > claims experience increases, your premium goes up. When it gets up to a > point where you can’t afford it any more, you have to re-apply. Each time > you re-apply, you get "rated" for any pre-existing conditions that arose > during the last policy, and you either have a waiting period for claims on > those conditions, or coverage is excluded entirely. So far, that hasn’t > been a big problem for us, but as we get deeper into old-farthood, it > probably will be. A young, single person can get basic coverage for just > a > couple hundred bucks.

This wouldn’t be such a tortured and pretend issue if we simply had (yes, I’ll say it) socialized medicine. Oh, and please don’t respond by putting down "other" countries. I’ve lived in "other" countries and socialized medicine works just fine. Better, as a matter of fact, because you have ACCESS. Geesh!

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> Whoo, I’m OK now. Unless you can afford to lay out some serious cash, health > insurance options for self-employed professionals in the US pretty much > suck.

I can tell you all about that. It’s not as bad as some would have you think, actually. I have pretty standard coverage, for a family of five, and it runs me just a shade under $400 per month. The biggest problem with it is that you enroll for insurance, get in a "pool", and as the "pool"’s claims experience increases, your premium goes up. When it gets up to a point where you can’t afford it any more, you have to re-apply. Each time you re-apply, you get "rated" for any pre-existing conditions that arose during the last policy, and you either have a waiting period for claims on those conditions, or coverage is excluded entirely. So far, that hasn’t been a big problem for us, but as we get deeper into old-farthood, it probably will be. A young, single person can get basic coverage for just a couple hundred bucks.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Yep. But it depends on which industry you’re in. Pro musicians don’t > > tend to make as much as their self-employed counterparts in other > > industries, so have a harder time affording healthcare. > Well, sure, but at the same time, musicians take such good care of > themselves that they rarely need medical attention. So, it all works > out. > Since all industrialized countries, excluding the USA, have health > coverage for every citizen, it makes you wonder why ANY American > musician would vote Republican. Especially considering the fact that we > (AMERICANS) pay twice the GNP for health care that other nations do, > just so people like musicians can suffer. Kind of weird, but there you > have it.

Yeah, you got health insurance, but you also have unemployment at about 3 times the rate in the ‘good ole USA’. and thats just for starters. but don’t get any ideas, cuz we have enough illegals already. oh yeah, health insurance is a CRITICAL problem, and you would never make it here anyway. heh heh! paul arizona musician self insured

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> Since all industrialized countries, excluding the USA, have health > coverage for every citizen, it makes you wonder why ANY American > musician would vote Republican. Especially considering the fact that we > (AMERICANS) pay twice the GNP for health care that other nations do, > just so people like musicians can suffer. Kind of weird, but there you > have it.

Don’t know what you mean by that last sentence, because I sure don’t pay for healthcare just so musicians can suffer. Anyway, I sure as hell wouldn’t want the government running the healthcare system in this country, but, I am 100% whole-heartedly in favor of the government providing a catastrophic-loss backstop — you know, help out people with a very serious, very expensive or long-term condition that taps out the major-medical policy — kind of like Medicare supplement coverage in reverse. Bring back home a few billion in foreign aid and help out folks that have tried their best to cover their own medical costs but just can’t.

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> It is a complex issue, and the US economy is WAY > harder to make this kind of thing happen than say in Sweden.

Why? Because we have black people? I detect something here. It’s not really that complex. Insurance employees will just be reassigned to work camps and pick up trash all day long. They could even be allowed to form a union. Then we can turn oll those skyscraping insurance headquarters (you know, the ones with the fountains and lovely offices throughout) into public schools. It’s all about what you want to spend your money on, man.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > We could also have a 15-20% unemployment rate too, just like "those other" > industralized nations. >> > Yep. But it depends on which industry you’re in. Pro musicians don’t >> > tend to make as much as their self-employed counterparts in other >> > industries, so have a harder time affording healthcare. >> Well, sure, but at the same time, musicians take such good care of >> themselves that they rarely need medical attention. So, it all works >> out. > Since all industrialized countries, excluding the USA, have health > coverage for every citizen, it makes you wonder why ANY American > musician would vote Republican. Especially considering the fact that we > (AMERICANS) pay twice the GNP for health care that other nations do, > just so people like musicians can suffer. Kind of weird, but there you > have it.

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> We could also have a 15-20% unemployment rate too, just like "those other" > industralized nations.

Oh c’com. They don’t lose their healthcare when they are unemployed. And since they are socialists they conmpensate folks quite nicely. You sit around at European cafes drinking wine and coffee all day. At night you play music. So what! I, as an employed American, have to spend a fortune to do that in Europe. Believe me. NOBODY spends their time worrying that SOMEBODY is going to get SOMETHING for free. What is this? Some kind of theory you stayed up all night inventing. Are you a Phil Oss Er Fer? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > Yep. But it depends on which industry you’re in. Pro musicians don’t >> > tend to make as much as their self-employed counterparts in other >> > industries, so have a harder time affording healthcare. >> Well, sure, but at the same time, musicians take such good care of >> themselves that they rarely need medical attention. So, it all works >> out. > Since all industrialized countries, excluding the USA, have health > coverage for every citizen, it makes you wonder why ANY American > musician would vote Republican. Especially considering the fact that we > (AMERICANS) pay twice the GNP for health care that other nations do, > just so people like musicians can suffer. Kind of weird, but there you > have it.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Since all industrialized countries, excluding the USA, have health > coverage for every citizen, it makes you wonder why ANY American > musician would vote Republican. Especially considering the fact that we > (AMERICANS) pay twice the GNP for health care that other nations do, > just so people like musicians can suffer. Kind of weird, but there you > have it. > Don’t know what you mean by that last sentence, because I sure don’t pay for > healthcare just so musicians can suffer. Anyway, I sure as hell wouldn’t > want the government running the healthcare system in this country, but, I am > 100% whole-heartedly in favor of the government providing a > catastrophic-loss backstop — you know, help out people with a very serious, > very expensive or long-term condition that taps out the major-medical > policy — kind of like Medicare supplement coverage in reverse. Bring back > home a few billion in foreign aid and help out folks that have tried their > best to cover their own medical costs but just can’t.

I sure as hell wouldn’t want the government to be involved with our police departments, water resources, fire departments, or military. I want private industry taking care of that. Your house is on fire and your credit card is maxed then let that fucker BURN. Great philosophy. Let’s just go all the way and stop the tortured thinking.

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Health Insurance? BWAHAHAHAHA! Whoo, I’m OK now. Unless you can afford to lay out some serious cash, health insurance options for self-employed professionals in the US pretty much suck. Usually, the cheapest thing you can find is an "advantage" plan – the "advantage" being that the premium goes through the roof if you use it. It’s usually just insurance against catastrophic medical expenses. You can find better insurance through professional organizations such as ASCAP, or through you local Chamber of Commerce. These tend to be comparable to group plans, but you have to pay the whole premium yourself. Only problem is, prices have spiked the last few years, putting insurance costs out of the reach of many. One advantage to being self-employed is that you can deduct healthcare costs over $5000 (I think) from your taxes. Better yet, you can marry someone who has good health insurance. Given rising healthcare costs and a crappy economy, that’s not such a sure bet these days either. If all else fails you can always put that open heart surgery bill on the 5 dollar a month plan… But hey, we’ve got lots of bombs. — Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." – Mark Twain

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A recent thread discussing the pro’s and con’s of being a professional > musician leads me to ask: > What, if anything, do full-time professional musicians do for health > insurance (in countries without free health care, like the USA). > Assuming you don’t have an employer like a big orchestra that provides > health insurance. (They do, right?) > Do full-time pro’s go without insurance, accept the risk, and avoid > medical costs as best they can? > Do they buy health insurance themselves? > Do they have a spouse whose health insurance covers them? > Lack of health insurance has always seemed to me to be a big drawback to > being a full-time pro. I guess anyone who is self-employed has the same > problem.

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We could also have a 15-20% unemployment rate too, just like "those other" industralized nations.

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Bush just passed a HUGE prescription drug program that drastically helps those on medicare. Additionally, do you realize what making "healthcare free" would do to the jobs market in this country as a full 1/7 of our economy is healthcare? The only way to pay for this would be to raise taxes, and this would NOT be a good thing to raise taxes for, as there is no guarantee that folks won’t smoke dope, and be fat lazy lardasses and screw up their bodies while the rest of us pay for them. It is a complex issue, and the US economy is WAY harder to make this kind of thing happen than say in Sweden. Especially considering the fact that we – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> (AMERICANS) pay twice the GNP for health care that other nations do, > just so people like musicians can suffer. Kind of weird, but there you > have it.

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> Yep. But it depends on which industry you’re in. Pro musicians don’t > tend to make as much as their self-employed counterparts in other > industries, so have a harder time affording healthcare. > Well, sure, but at the same time, musicians take such good care of > themselves that they rarely need medical attention. So, it all works out.

and if you don’t thinks that’s funny, you better find another ng! QOTW stuff, but it needs to be in context.

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> > Yep. But it depends on which industry you’re in. Pro musicians don’t > tend to make as much as their self-employed counterparts in other > industries, so have a harder time affording healthcare. > Well, sure, but at the same time, musicians take such good care of > themselves that they rarely need medical attention. So, it all works out.

Since all industrialized countries, excluding the USA, have health coverage for every citizen, it makes you wonder why ANY American musician would vote Republican. Especially considering the fact that we (AMERICANS) pay twice the GNP for health care that other nations do, just so people like musicians can suffer. Kind of weird, but there you have it.

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Well, sure, but at the same time, musicians take such good care of themselves that they rarely need medical attention. So, it all works out.

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A recent thread discussing the pro’s and con’s of being a professional musician leads me to ask: What, if anything, do full-time professional musicians do for health insurance (in countries without free health care, like the USA). Assuming you don’t have an employer like a big orchestra that provides health insurance. (They do, right?) Do full-time pro’s go without insurance, accept the risk, and avoid medical costs as best they can? Do they buy health insurance themselves? Do they have a spouse whose health insurance covers them? Lack of health insurance has always seemed to me to be a big drawback to being a full-time pro. I guess anyone who is self-employed has the same problem.

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>A recent thread discussing the pro’s and con’s of being a professional >musician leads me to ask: >What, if anything, do full-time professional musicians do for health >insurance (in countries without free health care, like the USA). >Assuming you don’t have an employer like a big orchestra that provides >health insurance. (They do, right?) >Do full-time pro’s go without insurance, accept the risk, and avoid >medical costs as best they can?

Many times, yes. And if something bad happens, folks will throw a beneift for them. If they’re lucky. >Do they buy health insurance themselves?

Usually not. >Do they have a spouse whose health insurance covers them?

If they’re lucky. Or if they are drummers. >Lack of health insurance has always seemed to me to be a big drawback to >being a full-time pro. I guess anyone who is self-employed has the same >problem.

Yep. But it depends on which industry you’re in. Pro musicians don’t tend to make as much as their self-employed counterparts in other industries, so have a harder time affording healthcare.

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