Business History Books » Business Plans » What do you think will happen if there is war?
What do you think will happen if there is war?
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> They win when they scare us into changing our lives. I won’t bow to >> that. >You don’t need terrorist, the sniper did that in Washington D.C. >Ben, the sniper(s) WERE terrorists, just the domestic kind. >I don’t believe al Qaeda wins anything by changing lives, and I don’t >think that’s their objective. Their words state more that they are >interested in their people and their perceived US and Western influence >in their land than they are in the lives of American civilians. >The World Trade Center was full of the very civilians you say are >affected by war. >Karen
The attack on the WTC was not a war. It was a criminal act. Thumper
Response:
Cruise ships underway will be diverted to the Persian gulf with their passenger loads. Iraqi cities will be offered the deployment of large groups of shoppers if they surrender. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. >What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish >to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have >our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the >ramifications would be?
Response:
> >> They win when they scare us into changing our lives. I won’t bow to >> that. >You don’t need terrorist, the sniper did that in Washington D.C. > Ben, the sniper(s) WERE terrorists, just the domestic kind.
Agreed. But way different types of terrorists with different goals. The anthrax mailer is probably a domestic terrorist, his aim seems more the psychological terrorizing of a populace than actually killing people. >I don’t believe al Qaeda wins anything by changing lives, and I don’t >think that’s their objective. Their words state more that they are >interested in their people and their perceived US and Western influence >in their land than they are in the lives of American civilians. > The World Trade Center was full of the very civilians you say are > affected by war.
My point was whether you choose to go on vacation or not, most of us work, are in public places from time to time, all of us can be killed in a terrorist attack that is becoming part of the war. You may get killed in the U.S. or abroad just about anywhere as Western tourists and business people are targets. At one time terrorism did not hit us in any major way, it happened in England, Spain, Israel, Phillipines, and other areas. Our embassies may have been attacked, here US government workers or military were targeted. Now anyone Western is. That’s what has changed. Regarding war, we still fight most wars we are involved in on foreign soil, the bombs, the poisonous residue from the bombs, the psychological trauma that goes along with war, the feeling of violation of being occupied by foreign forces, the uncertainty of where the next bomb will fall or if going out in the street means dodging the line of fire from soldiers both friend and foe, is a reality we haven’t had to deal with. We *have been* sheltered from the horrors of war. Terrorism brings only a part of that to our lives, here. Regarding al Qaeda, I think they are part vengeful, part fanatics and hijackers of an established religion, part cult–definitely evil. However, they are not cowards, they will fight for what they "believe" in and they’ve taken on a superpower in the USA. As for winning, they’ve won nothing in Afghanistan and had much of their base destroyed and their model gov’t put out of power, they have not been able to rally the populace of Muslim countries into joining in their holy war, they have failed in more of their planned attacks than they have succeeded in carrying out, some major members of their group are in Western custody, many of their computers have be seized, I think bin Laden and Zawahiri have changed their appearance hence they put out audiotapes rather than videotapes now and are less effective now than they were before the war in Afghanistan begun. They don’t win anything if we alter our plans, IMO. I don’t find their aim to terrorize us more than affect our government’s policies in *Muslim* countries. I don’t define them winning by how we conduct ourselves in response to them. I think we should do what is prudent to stay alive TO A DEGREE. Not only for our sakes, for our loved ones sakes. That’s just my point of view on this matter. Ben S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Karen
Response:
> The attack on the WTC was not a war. It was a criminal act. > I’ll agree with that, because there was no war at the time. But, when > cruise missles fell on Afghanistan (in response to the USS Cole and > Africa embassy bombings), missed their targets, and killed civilians, > was that also a criminal act (indifference to life as opposed to > deliberately targeting civilians)?
In my opinion, no. There is a difference. If we are both walking on the sidewalk and I push an old lady out into traffic, and you come to her rescue and push her out of the way of the oncoming car, one could say that we both push old ladies around, but there is a difference. Jim
Response:
>>We are going back to Hawaii next year because our first choice is no longer >available. We would have gone to the Mediterranean in 2001 except that >Palestinian terrorists made Ashdod and Haifa in Israel off limits.
I have said this before, and I will say this again. We are all born, we will all die, the only difference between any of us is the time interval between these two events. Now first of all, please DO NOT misunderstand me in anyway, this is NOT an anti USA posting. However I do have an advantage over you and your countrymen, the advantage I have is that I live in London. Why do I mention this?, its because in reality you have only really seen terrorism at home in the last 18 months, and I have lived with it all my life. The UK has spent the last 1000 years pissing off as many countries as we possibly could, the price we have had to pay for this is we have suffered domestic terrorism for the same amount of time. However we also learnt a long time ago, that we cannot let these people run our lives for us, if we allowed them to do this, then they have already won their war If Americans stop traveling to certain place, then their objective is already achieved, and you have already conceded defeat before any war has started, its not the war you have to win its the peace. Th USA holds itself up as a paragon of freedom and democracy, yet you are already curtailing your right to freedom, by limiting where you travel to. I have been to the states more times than I care to remember, apart from the inner cities, I have seen how beautiful the country and people are, BUT the image I have of you, and the image these terrorists have of you is not the same. Have you ever been to the middle east? I have, and daily on TV the image of the USA you get is a violent country where people are killed on a regular basis for the price of a bullet. Now the terrorists are maturing, they have realised that Americans are not coming to them any more, so instead they are bringing the War to you. I haven’t checked the figures yet, but i am willing to bet more Americans were killed 9-11 than have been killed in the last 100 years due to terrorism. In other words its probably more dangerous to stay at home than it is to travel abroad. This is doing nothing more than helping these people to win Coming into or leaving from Dover? Fixed price transfers available Cheaper and better than the cruise lines http://www.aiporttransfers.biz
Response:
>>It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. >What happens to the cruise and airline industries? >Unfortunately, I fully expect the cruise lines to pull most, if not all of the >ships out of Europe for next summer if we go to war with Iraq. This would be a >real bummer for me since I’m booked on the Regal Princess next May from Rome to >Copenhagen. We had booked a European cruise on Sept. 10th, 2001(for May of >2002), only to have the terrorist attacks occur the next day. The ship we >booked was redeployed to the Mexican Riviera, and we ended up not going to >Europe this past spring. I’m still hoping that our cruise will take place next >May, but realistically am not counting on it.
I would expect that you will be okay since you will be west of Italy. If you have any North Africa stops, you might expect a change. There might be problems on eastern and southern Med sailings — I sure would hold off booking one. Or you can come with me on the Constellation, rt London, on May 10 
— "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln
Response:
Just made a booking last week for an April cruise. My agent said if we go to war she is anticipating the same trends to happen. Deeply discounted cruise rates for one. Last year I booked the Pride about a month after 9/11 and got a STEAL on that cruise. We paid a really low fare and then also got a 4 category upgrade to boot! How can you beat a balcony stateroom for just over $400 per person! Len…
Response:
>Please go on your cruise. They win if you do not.
If the ship is sailing and the airlines are flying to Europe, I’ll be there. I’m just concerned about the cruise lines deciding that Europe isn’t safe in case we go to war and redeploying the ships that are currently scheduled to sail there in the summer of 2003.
Response:
> I am a wuss. I worry about things like that, but the truth is that we lose > when we allow cowards like Osama Bin Laden and Al-Quida to change our way of > life.
We are at war with bin Laden and al Qaeda. I don’t see anything cowardly about bin Laden or al Qaeda. I find their resolve chilling. You don’t win or lose, you endure uncertainty, paranoia and witness horror. We prove little by traveling or our lifestyle, we are just targets to them. We are bombing Iraq almost daily, but no war yet. There’s no escape from terror. When they decide to strike it may be anything anywhere, we may die at work, like those in the World Trade Center, or on vacation, like those in Bali. That’s the horror of the situation. Ben
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We are at war with bin Laden and al Qaeda. I don’t see anything cowardly >about bin Laden or al Qaeda. I find their resolve chilling. You don’t >win or lose, you endure uncertainty, paranoia and witness horror. We >prove little by traveling or our lifestyle, we are just targets to them. >We are bombing Iraq almost daily, but no war yet. >There’s no escape from terror. When they decide to strike it may be >anything anywhere, we may die at work, like those in the World Trade >Center, or on vacation, like those in Bali. That’s the horror of the situation. > I think I’ll just stay home for the rest of my life and pull the > covers up over my head.
I think we should do what is prudent. When Washington D.C. and areas of Virginia were being terrorized people in these areas altered their daily lives. We are being unrealistic if we think that in the event of any attacks in the U.S. or any vacation spots that most people won’t change their behavior and try to stay alive. The United Islamic Front (includes al Qaeda and a web of others) is at war with our government, and civilians are now part of that war. They win when they change our government’s policies, and they aren’t close to that. Wars always affect civilians. Ben S.
Response:
>… or face seats backward instead of forward >(which would lower the risk of injury from sudden deceleration)? Simple: In >the first case, it would be too expensive; in the second case, passengers >would object.
I have had the opportunity to sit in one of those bulkhead seats that face rearward. It wouldn’t recline, so I felt like I was constantly falling out of the seat. Very uncomfortable, as would take-offs from any seat facing rearward. I suppose there would be some benefit in a sudden deceleration (crash). You would get to see the debris (luggage, ripped up seats, bodies, etc.) coming your way to smash the living daylights out of you. That is of course if your seat isn’t one of those that gets ripped from its moorings! I would rather not see it coming, even though I know it is! Russ
Response:
And so will Danni and I. We will be in San Diego next October 10th, but my point is that we will never again look at the world the way we did on September 10, 2001, and that is sad. DG in Cherry Hill, NJ
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Please go on your cruise. They win if you do not. > I will never allow Osama Bin Laden, Al-Quida or ANY terrorists to > keep me from cruising, ever. > Karen, resolute > __ /7__/7__/7__ > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::… > http://www.cupcaked.com > (…and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)
Response:
> >The United Islamic Front (includes al Qaeda and a web of others) is at >war with our government, and civilians are now part of that war. They >win when they change our government’s policies, and they aren’t close to >that. > They win when they scare us into changing our lives. I won’t bow to > that.
You don’t need terrorist, the sniper did that in Washington D.C. >Wars always affect civilians. > I know you’re trying to sound profound, but that last sentence only > sounds silly in it’s childlike simplicity, Ben.
Not trying to be profound at all. I think the simplicity is that Americans think war happens somewhere else, and it has in the past. But now we feel only some of the horror in attacks in peaceful areas against noncombatants.. War is hell, not glory. I don’t believe al Qaeda wins anything by changing lives, and I don’t think that’s their objective. Their words state more that they are interested in their people and their perceived US and Western influence in their land than they are in the lives of American civilians. I’ve spoken with enough people from other parts of the world to realize that most people with grievances with the US have them with the US gov’t. Most love the US people, spirit, freedom, most aspects of the lifestyle, but have problems with the US gov’t policies towards their countries, many of which are covert and unknown to US citizens. Ben S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Karen
Response:
> >The World Trade Center was full of the very civilians you say are >affected by war. >Karen > The attack on the WTC was not a war. It was a criminal act.
I’ll agree with that, because there was no war at the time. But, when cruise missles fell on Afghanistan (in response to the USS Cole and Africa embassy bombings), missed their targets, and killed civilians, was that also a criminal act (indifference to life as opposed to deliberately targeting civilians)? Ben – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thumper
Response:
We are going back to Hawaii next year because our first choice is no longer available. We would have gone to the Mediterranean in 2001 except that Palestinian terrorists made Ashdod and Haifa in Israel off limits. Danni is my daughter and I have attempted to show her everything that her mother, who passed away in 1980, saw. We have been to Hawaii, to Acapulco, Aruba, Curacao, San Juan, St. Thomas, Martinique, but Israel still escapes us. If there was a God, I would get my wife back and show her all of the things that Danni and I have seen that she never did. For anyone who has ever read a post of mine and attempted to send a private But according to the folks who charge me $40 a month for service, that is not my address. Damn, it was once. According to folks who have attempted to contact me at If anyone cares about anything that I have ever posted, and you want to DG in Cherry Hill
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Please go on your cruise. They win if you do not. > If the ship is sailing and the airlines are flying to Europe, I’ll be there. > I’m just concerned about the cruise lines deciding that Europe isn’t safe in > case we go to war and redeploying the ships that are currently scheduled to > sail there in the summer of 2003.
Response:
On October 11, 2001, 30 days after 9/11, Danni and I flew from Philadelphia to San Francisco to embark on a Veendam Canal cruise. Danni always takes a valium before any flight, so I was left to fret for 5 1/2 hours. Was I scared? Absolutely. When we took the pre-cruise tour of San Francisco which put us on the Golden Gate Bridge a couple of days after there were threats to destroy it and the Bay Bridge, and when I swear I heard someone speaking a foreign language on a pay phone, was I scared? Absolutely. When we were in several ports of call and there were little boats much closer than I would have liked, was I scared? This time no, because, and don’t laugh, our cabin was high enough that I wasn’t worried. I am a wuss. I worry about things like that, but the truth is that we lose when we allow cowards like Osama Bin Laden and Al-Quida to change our way of life. Please go on your cruise. They win if you do not. DG in Cherry Hill, NJ .
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. > What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish > to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have > our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the > ramifications would be?
Response:
"Of course, if you had asked this question back in 1941, the answer would have been:…" Yeah, it is a different situation now. Funny, the farther we have come and the more "one-worldly" we become, the more insulated each of us seems to be also. Oh well, I agree that we shouldn’t let ‘em get to us and keep on with our lives. I should learn from my 74 yr old mother who a month after 911 hopped on a plane and went on a long vacation to Ireland with girlfriends. The family was aghast. She had a blast.
Response:
>It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. >What happens to the cruise and airline industries?
Unfortunately, I fully expect the cruise lines to pull most, if not all of the ships out of Europe for next summer if we go to war with Iraq. This would be a real bummer for me since I’m booked on the Regal Princess next May from Rome to Copenhagen. We had booked a European cruise on Sept. 10th, 2001(for May of 2002), only to have the terrorist attacks occur the next day. The ship we booked was redeployed to the Mexican Riviera, and we ended up not going to Europe this past spring. I’m still hoping that our cruise will take place next May, but realistically am not counting on it.
Response:
Security in airports will never be 100% effective, and it won’t be made 100% effective by PR ploys like grabbing little old ladies from Pasadena for shoe checks. Aviation safety, like most things, involves trade-offs. Why doesn’t the government require airliners to use nitrogen in fuel tanks (which would reduce the risk of explosion) or face seats backward instead of forward (which would lower the risk of injury from sudden deceleration)? Simple: In the first case, it would be too expensive; in the second case, passengers would object. It’s worth noting that the FAA is required by law to put a price on each life saved when determining whether to impose new safety regulations. This suggests that the government will look for a sweet spot between "too expensive" and "ineffective" when economic push comes to shove.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At first, airport security will probably get more insane then it already is. > Personally, I think airport security is a joke, and needs to be a LOT MORE > "insane", war time or not… [SNIP]
Response:
Of course, if you had asked this question back in 1941, the answer would have been: The Government is going to take all of the ships, refit them and use them as troop transports for the duration… And anyhow, there won’t be enough fuel oil for leisure travel. And don’t forget to look out for u-boats. And, of course, the ships must be entirely blacked out at night so forget about those pretty deck lights. There are wars…and then there are wars. Peter
Response:
I could not agree with this more. Don’t stop traveling! If you stop traveling ….they win. The travel industry is essential to our economy. It creates millions of jobs. Debra W. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Don’t stop travel. Travel in America is essential in getting our > economy strong again. Just be very careful and stay close. I > fully plan on doing our cruises as well. If everyone stops travel > this would really hurt the economy even more. US Air is on the brink > of chapter 11 and now United is announcing they may seek protection next > year. A good travel season for the holidays can certainly help.
Response:
> At first, airport security will probably get more insane then it already is.
Personally, I think airport security is a joke, and needs to be a LOT MORE "insane", war time or not. Just back from Ireland – had one of those lead lined bags in my carry-on loaded with my film and camera. I just left it in my bag to go through the scanner. Don’t you think anyone halfway capable would have been curious to know what was inside the bag? Could have been a hand gun, for goodness sakes. The bag was not examined in either direction. This past summer, we flew to Alaska. In total, we went through three security checks (once on our way out, once within the state, once on the way home). Only once did anyone question my lead bag, and asked to look inside. Coming back into the US was another joke. Handed the immigration guy my customs declaration, and that was it. No questions, no search, no nothing. The guy didn’t even look at my passport! I’m happy to be delyaed a little longer if that’s what it takes for more thorough searches at the airport. Until I see differently, I have zero confidence that the security that’s in place is truly effective. Lee
Response:
Don’t stop travel. Travel in America is essential in getting our economy strong again. Just be very careful and stay close. I fully plan on doing our cruises as well. If everyone stops travel this would really hurt the economy even more. US Air is on the brink of chapter 11 and now United is announcing they may seek protection next year. A good travel season for the holidays can certainly help. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. > What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish > to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have > our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the > ramifications would be?
Response:
It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the ramifications would be?
Response:
At first, airport security will probably get more insane then it already is. If the world reacts by canceling travel plans, either for economic or safety concerns, then flight schedules will certainly change as they will cut back the number of flights and size of the planes. I would make sure to check your flight schedule on a regular basis just to be sure your flights still are there, they usually update those monthly or so. It may even cause prices to drop even further. It’s a whole different ballgame if the war moves to additional terrorist acts here.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. > What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish > to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have > our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the > ramifications would be?
Response:
It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the ramifications would be?
Response:
At first, airport security will probably get more insane then it already is. If the world reacts by canceling travel plans, either for economic or safety concerns, then flight schedules will certainly change as they will cut back the number of flights and size of the planes. I would make sure to check your flight schedule on a regular basis just to be sure your flights still are there, they usually update those monthly or so. It may even cause prices to drop even further. It’s a whole different ballgame if the war moves to additional terrorist acts here.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. > What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish > to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have > our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the > ramifications would be?
Response:
Don’t stop travel. Travel in America is essential in getting our economy strong again. Just be very careful and stay close. I fully plan on doing our cruises as well. If everyone stops travel this would really hurt the economy even more. US Air is on the brink of chapter 11 and now United is announcing they may seek protection next year. A good travel season for the holidays can certainly help. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. > What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish > to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have > our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the > ramifications would be?
Response:
> At first, airport security will probably get more insane then it already is.
Personally, I think airport security is a joke, and needs to be a LOT MORE "insane", war time or not. Just back from Ireland – had one of those lead lined bags in my carry-on loaded with my film and camera. I just left it in my bag to go through the scanner. Don’t you think anyone halfway capable would have been curious to know what was inside the bag? Could have been a hand gun, for goodness sakes. The bag was not examined in either direction. This past summer, we flew to Alaska. In total, we went through three security checks (once on our way out, once within the state, once on the way home). Only once did anyone question my lead bag, and asked to look inside. Coming back into the US was another joke. Handed the immigration guy my customs declaration, and that was it. No questions, no search, no nothing. The guy didn’t even look at my passport! I’m happy to be delyaed a little longer if that’s what it takes for more thorough searches at the airport. Until I see differently, I have zero confidence that the security that’s in place is truly effective. Lee
Response:
I could not agree with this more. Don’t stop traveling! If you stop traveling ….they win. The travel industry is essential to our economy. It creates millions of jobs. Debra W. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Don’t stop travel. Travel in America is essential in getting our > economy strong again. Just be very careful and stay close. I > fully plan on doing our cruises as well. If everyone stops travel > this would really hurt the economy even more. US Air is on the brink > of chapter 11 and now United is announcing they may seek protection next > year. A good travel season for the holidays can certainly help.
Response:
Of course, if you had asked this question back in 1941, the answer would have been: The Government is going to take all of the ships, refit them and use them as troop transports for the duration… And anyhow, there won’t be enough fuel oil for leisure travel. And don’t forget to look out for u-boats. And, of course, the ships must be entirely blacked out at night so forget about those pretty deck lights. There are wars…and then there are wars. Peter
Response:
Security in airports will never be 100% effective, and it won’t be made 100% effective by PR ploys like grabbing little old ladies from Pasadena for shoe checks. Aviation safety, like most things, involves trade-offs. Why doesn’t the government require airliners to use nitrogen in fuel tanks (which would reduce the risk of explosion) or face seats backward instead of forward (which would lower the risk of injury from sudden deceleration)? Simple: In the first case, it would be too expensive; in the second case, passengers would object. It’s worth noting that the FAA is required by law to put a price on each life saved when determining whether to impose new safety regulations. This suggests that the government will look for a sweet spot between "too expensive" and "ineffective" when economic push comes to shove.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At first, airport security will probably get more insane then it already is. > Personally, I think airport security is a joke, and needs to be a LOT MORE > "insane", war time or not… [SNIP]
Response:
"Of course, if you had asked this question back in 1941, the answer would have been:…" Yeah, it is a different situation now. Funny, the farther we have come and the more "one-worldly" we become, the more insulated each of us seems to be also. Oh well, I agree that we shouldn’t let ‘em get to us and keep on with our lives. I should learn from my 74 yr old mother who a month after 911 hopped on a plane and went on a long vacation to Ireland with girlfriends. The family was aghast. She had a blast.
Response:
>It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. >What happens to the cruise and airline industries?
Unfortunately, I fully expect the cruise lines to pull most, if not all of the ships out of Europe for next summer if we go to war with Iraq. This would be a real bummer for me since I’m booked on the Regal Princess next May from Rome to Copenhagen. We had booked a European cruise on Sept. 10th, 2001(for May of 2002), only to have the terrorist attacks occur the next day. The ship we booked was redeployed to the Mexican Riviera, and we ended up not going to Europe this past spring. I’m still hoping that our cruise will take place next May, but realistically am not counting on it.
Response:
On October 11, 2001, 30 days after 9/11, Danni and I flew from Philadelphia to San Francisco to embark on a Veendam Canal cruise. Danni always takes a valium before any flight, so I was left to fret for 5 1/2 hours. Was I scared? Absolutely. When we took the pre-cruise tour of San Francisco which put us on the Golden Gate Bridge a couple of days after there were threats to destroy it and the Bay Bridge, and when I swear I heard someone speaking a foreign language on a pay phone, was I scared? Absolutely. When we were in several ports of call and there were little boats much closer than I would have liked, was I scared? This time no, because, and don’t laugh, our cabin was high enough that I wasn’t worried. I am a wuss. I worry about things like that, but the truth is that we lose when we allow cowards like Osama Bin Laden and Al-Quida to change our way of life. Please go on your cruise. They win if you do not. DG in Cherry Hill, NJ .
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. > What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish > to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have > our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the > ramifications would be?
Response:
>>It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. >What happens to the cruise and airline industries? >Unfortunately, I fully expect the cruise lines to pull most, if not all of the >ships out of Europe for next summer if we go to war with Iraq. This would be a >real bummer for me since I’m booked on the Regal Princess next May from Rome to >Copenhagen. We had booked a European cruise on Sept. 10th, 2001(for May of >2002), only to have the terrorist attacks occur the next day. The ship we >booked was redeployed to the Mexican Riviera, and we ended up not going to >Europe this past spring. I’m still hoping that our cruise will take place next >May, but realistically am not counting on it.
I would expect that you will be okay since you will be west of Italy. If you have any North Africa stops, you might expect a change. There might be problems on eastern and southern Med sailings — I sure would hold off booking one. Or you can come with me on the Constellation, rt London, on May 10 — "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln
Response:
Just made a booking last week for an April cruise. My agent said if we go to war she is anticipating the same trends to happen. Deeply discounted cruise rates for one. Last year I booked the Pride about a month after 9/11 and got a STEAL on that cruise. We paid a really low fare and then also got a 4 category upgrade to boot! How can you beat a balcony stateroom for just over $400 per person! Len…
Response:
>Please go on your cruise. They win if you do not.
If the ship is sailing and the airlines are flying to Europe, I’ll be there. I’m just concerned about the cruise lines deciding that Europe isn’t safe in case we go to war and redeploying the ships that are currently scheduled to sail there in the summer of 2003.
Response:
> I am a wuss. I worry about things like that, but the truth is that we lose > when we allow cowards like Osama Bin Laden and Al-Quida to change our way of > life.
We are at war with bin Laden and al Qaeda. I don’t see anything cowardly about bin Laden or al Qaeda. I find their resolve chilling. You don’t win or lose, you endure uncertainty, paranoia and witness horror. We prove little by traveling or our lifestyle, we are just targets to them. We are bombing Iraq almost daily, but no war yet. There’s no escape from terror. When they decide to strike it may be anything anywhere, we may die at work, like those in the World Trade Center, or on vacation, like those in Bali. That’s the horror of the situation. Ben
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We are at war with bin Laden and al Qaeda. I don’t see anything cowardly >about bin Laden or al Qaeda. I find their resolve chilling. You don’t >win or lose, you endure uncertainty, paranoia and witness horror. We >prove little by traveling or our lifestyle, we are just targets to them. >We are bombing Iraq almost daily, but no war yet. >There’s no escape from terror. When they decide to strike it may be >anything anywhere, we may die at work, like those in the World Trade >Center, or on vacation, like those in Bali. That’s the horror of the situation. > I think I’ll just stay home for the rest of my life and pull the > covers up over my head.
I think we should do what is prudent. When Washington D.C. and areas of Virginia were being terrorized people in these areas altered their daily lives. We are being unrealistic if we think that in the event of any attacks in the U.S. or any vacation spots that most people won’t change their behavior and try to stay alive. The United Islamic Front (includes al Qaeda and a web of others) is at war with our government, and civilians are now part of that war. They win when they change our government’s policies, and they aren’t close to that. Wars always affect civilians. Ben S.
Response:
>… or face seats backward instead of forward >(which would lower the risk of injury from sudden deceleration)? Simple: In >the first case, it would be too expensive; in the second case, passengers >would object.
I have had the opportunity to sit in one of those bulkhead seats that face rearward. It wouldn’t recline, so I felt like I was constantly falling out of the seat. Very uncomfortable, as would take-offs from any seat facing rearward. I suppose there would be some benefit in a sudden deceleration (crash). You would get to see the debris (luggage, ripped up seats, bodies, etc.) coming your way to smash the living daylights out of you. That is of course if your seat isn’t one of those that gets ripped from its moorings! I would rather not see it coming, even though I know it is! Russ
Response:
And so will Danni and I. We will be in San Diego next October 10th, but my point is that we will never again look at the world the way we did on September 10, 2001, and that is sad. DG in Cherry Hill, NJ
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Please go on your cruise. They win if you do not. > I will never allow Osama Bin Laden, Al-Quida or ANY terrorists to > keep me from cruising, ever. > Karen, resolute > __ /7__/7__/7__ > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::… > http://www.cupcaked.com > (…and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)
Response:
> >The United Islamic Front (includes al Qaeda and a web of others) is at >war with our government, and civilians are now part of that war. They >win when they change our government’s policies, and they aren’t close to >that. > They win when they scare us into changing our lives. I won’t bow to > that.
You don’t need terrorist, the sniper did that in Washington D.C. >Wars always affect civilians. > I know you’re trying to sound profound, but that last sentence only > sounds silly in it’s childlike simplicity, Ben.
Not trying to be profound at all. I think the simplicity is that Americans think war happens somewhere else, and it has in the past. But now we feel only some of the horror in attacks in peaceful areas against noncombatants.. War is hell, not glory. I don’t believe al Qaeda wins anything by changing lives, and I don’t think that’s their objective. Their words state more that they are interested in their people and their perceived US and Western influence in their land than they are in the lives of American civilians. I’ve spoken with enough people from other parts of the world to realize that most people with grievances with the US have them with the US gov’t. Most love the US people, spirit, freedom, most aspects of the lifestyle, but have problems with the US gov’t policies towards their countries, many of which are covert and unknown to US citizens. Ben S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Karen
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> They win when they scare us into changing our lives. I won’t bow to >> that. >You don’t need terrorist, the sniper did that in Washington D.C. >Ben, the sniper(s) WERE terrorists, just the domestic kind. >I don’t believe al Qaeda wins anything by changing lives, and I don’t >think that’s their objective. Their words state more that they are >interested in their people and their perceived US and Western influence >in their land than they are in the lives of American civilians. >The World Trade Center was full of the very civilians you say are >affected by war. >Karen
The attack on the WTC was not a war. It was a criminal act. Thumper
Response:
Cruise ships underway will be diverted to the Persian gulf with their passenger loads. Iraqi cities will be offered the deployment of large groups of shoppers if they surrender. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >It sounds like areement with the UN or not, there may soon be war with Iraq. >What happens to the cruise and airline industries? I suppose it is selfish >to think about vacation during such a time, but I am only human. And we have >our first cruise planned for this summer to Alaska. What do you think the >ramifications would be?
Response:
> >> They win when they scare us into changing our lives. I won’t bow to >> that. >You don’t need terrorist, the sniper did that in Washington D.C. > Ben, the sniper(s) WERE terrorists, just the domestic kind.
Agreed. But way different types of terrorists with different goals. The anthrax mailer is probably a domestic terrorist, his aim seems more the psychological terrorizing of a populace than actually killing people. >I don’t believe al Qaeda wins anything by changing lives, and I don’t >think that’s their objective. Their words state more that they are >interested in their people and their perceived US and Western influence >in their land than they are in the lives of American civilians. > The World Trade Center was full of the very civilians you say are > affected by war.
My point was whether you choose to go on vacation or not, most of us work, are in public places from time to time, all of us can be killed in a terrorist attack that is becoming part of the war. You may get killed in the U.S. or abroad just about anywhere as Western tourists and business people are targets. At one time terrorism did not hit us in any major way, it happened in England, Spain, Israel, Phillipines, and other areas. Our embassies may have been attacked, here US government workers or military were targeted. Now anyone Western is. That’s what has changed. Regarding war, we still fight most wars we are involved in on foreign soil, the bombs, the poisonous residue from the bombs, the psychological trauma that goes along with war, the feeling of violation of being occupied by foreign forces, the uncertainty of where the next bomb will fall or if going out in the street means dodging the line of fire from soldiers both friend and foe, is a reality we haven’t had to deal with. We *have been* sheltered from the horrors of war. Terrorism brings only a part of that to our lives, here. Regarding al Qaeda, I think they are part vengeful, part fanatics and hijackers of an established religion, part cult–definitely evil. However, they are not cowards, they will fight for what they "believe" in and they’ve taken on a superpower in the USA. As for winning, they’ve won nothing in Afghanistan and had much of their base destroyed and their model gov’t put out of power, they have not been able to rally the populace of Muslim countries into joining in their holy war, they have failed in more of their planned attacks than they have succeeded in carrying out, some major members of their group are in Western custody, many of their computers have be seized, I think bin Laden and Zawahiri have changed their appearance hence they put out audiotapes rather than videotapes now and are less effective now than they were before the war in Afghanistan begun. They don’t win anything if we alter our plans, IMO. I don’t find their aim to terrorize us more than affect our government’s policies in *Muslim* countries. I don’t define them winning by how we conduct ourselves in response to them. I think we should do what is prudent to stay alive TO A DEGREE. Not only for our sakes, for our loved ones sakes. That’s just my point of view on this matter. Ben S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Karen
Response:
> >The World Trade Center was full of the very civilians you say are >affected by war. >Karen > The attack on the WTC was not a war. It was a criminal act.
I’ll agree with that, because there was no war at the time. But, when cruise missles fell on Afghanistan (in response to the USS Cole and Africa embassy bombings), missed their targets, and killed civilians, was that also a criminal act (indifference to life as opposed to deliberately targeting civilians)? Ben – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thumper
Response:
We are going back to Hawaii next year because our first choice is no longer available. We would have gone to the Mediterranean in 2001 except that Palestinian terrorists made Ashdod and Haifa in Israel off limits. Danni is my daughter and I have attempted to show her everything that her mother, who passed away in 1980, saw. We have been to Hawaii, to Acapulco, Aruba, Curacao, San Juan, St. Thomas, Martinique, but Israel still escapes us. If there was a God, I would get my wife back and show her all of the things that Danni and I have seen that she never did. For anyone who has ever read a post of mine and attempted to send a private But according to the folks who charge me $40 a month for service, that is not my address. Damn, it was once. According to folks who have attempted to contact me at If anyone cares about anything that I have ever posted, and you want to DG in Cherry Hill
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Please go on your cruise. They win if you do not. > If the ship is sailing and the airlines are flying to Europe, I’ll be there. > I’m just concerned about the cruise lines deciding that Europe isn’t safe in > case we go to war and redeploying the ships that are currently scheduled to > sail there in the summer of 2003.
Response:
>>We are going back to Hawaii next year because our first choice is no longer >available. We would have gone to the Mediterranean in 2001 except that >Palestinian terrorists made Ashdod and Haifa in Israel off limits.
I have said this before, and I will say this again. We are all born, we will all die, the only difference between any of us is the time interval between these two events. Now first of all, please DO NOT misunderstand me in anyway, this is NOT an anti USA posting. However I do have an advantage over you and your countrymen, the advantage I have is that I live in London. Why do I mention this?, its because in reality you have only really seen terrorism at home in the last 18 months, and I have lived with it all my life. The UK has spent the last 1000 years pissing off as many countries as we possibly could, the price we have had to pay for this is we have suffered domestic terrorism for the same amount of time. However we also learnt a long time ago, that we cannot let these people run our lives for us, if we allowed them to do this, then they have already won their war If Americans stop traveling to certain place, then their objective is already achieved, and you have already conceded defeat before any war has started, its not the war you have to win its the peace. Th USA holds itself up as a paragon of freedom and democracy, yet you are already curtailing your right to freedom, by limiting where you travel to. I have been to the states more times than I care to remember, apart from the inner cities, I have seen how beautiful the country and people are, BUT the image I have of you, and the image these terrorists have of you is not the same. Have you ever been to the middle east? I have, and daily on TV the image of the USA you get is a violent country where people are killed on a regular basis for the price of a bullet. Now the terrorists are maturing, they have realised that Americans are not coming to them any more, so instead they are bringing the War to you. I haven’t checked the figures yet, but i am willing to bet more Americans were killed 9-11 than have been killed in the last 100 years due to terrorism. In other words its probably more dangerous to stay at home than it is to travel abroad. This is doing nothing more than helping these people to win Coming into or leaving from Dover? Fixed price transfers available Cheaper and better than the cruise lines http://www.aiporttransfers.biz
Response:
> The attack on the WTC was not a war. It was a criminal act. > I’ll agree with that, because there was no war at the time. But, when > cruise missles fell on Afghanistan (in response to the USS Cole and > Africa embassy bombings), missed their targets, and killed civilians, > was that also a criminal act (indifference to life as opposed to > deliberately targeting civilians)?
In my opinion, no. There is a difference. If we are both walking on the sidewalk and I push an old lady out into traffic, and you come to her rescue and push her out of the way of the oncoming car, one could say that we both push old ladies around, but there is a difference. Jim