Business History Books » Business Plans » The "Dead Doctors" tape as a marketing aid
The "Dead Doctors" tape as a marketing aid
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Wrong. It’s trivial to modify human behavior: >You make an assertion, but you don’t back it up. Read below. >>>Let’s face the facts: the MLMs could quickly end the commercial abuses that >>>their representatives participate in. But they don’t (or, at least, haven’t >>>yet). >>The practicality is that MLMers are each independent businesses. >>There is a "legal fine line" between an mlm company having an >>"independent contractor" and an "employee". An mlm company can >>suggest how to effectively do business and enhance the distributor’s >>and company’s image but cannot do much about "unethical" practices so >>long as those practices are not illegal or misreprenting the mlm >>company or products such as making wild income claims or saying a >>product will "cure" etc.
If I may jump in. Keith – Does this mean that Life Plus can’t stop its "Independent" Sales Agents (ISAs) from continuing to distribute the false "Independent" Lab Assay comparison of LP/Neway/New Vision colloidol mineral products? It won’t be illegal for an ISA to distribute that and it won’t be a wild income claim or a cure claim, but I’ll bet that soon, if it hasn’t already, LP will tell every ISA to stop distributing it or else lose their status. I guess we’ll just have to see. Everyone else – There is a way to stop this nonsense: Every time a Life Plus (or other MLM ISA) puts an ad in a newsgroup just take it along with the biggest file you can find and email it to Life Plus (or other MLM) and ask them how it feels to get rude, unwanted messages! If enough people do it you better believe that LP will get on their ISA to tow the line and learn netiquette.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Wrong. It’s trivial to modify human behavior: >You make an assertion, but you don’t back it up. Read below. >>Let’s face the facts: the MLMs could quickly end the commercial abuses that >>their representatives participate in. But they don’t (or, at least, haven’t >>yet). >The practicality is that MLMers are each independent businesses. >There is a "legal fine line" between an mlm company having an >"independent contractor" and an "employee". An mlm company can >suggest how to effectively do business and enhance the distributor’s >and company’s image but cannot do much about "unethical" practices so >long as those practices are not illegal or misreprenting the mlm >company or products such as making wild income claims or saying a >product will "cure" etc. >Why not? >Why can’t an MLM dictate that its "independent" representatives operate >with ethics? Why can’t they pull someone’s account if they Spam the >Internet?
Who is going to define what are "ethics"? Who is going to define what is Spam"? Those can be very different things to different folks and courts. AND if a company goes about dictating TOO many aspects of a distributor’s business the distributor has fewer choices to choose from and may not find what is effective for them. AND you can bet that there ARE legal differences between what an "employee" is and an "independent contractor" is. My business is registered in the State of Washington and have on several occaisions received mailings from the State Dept of Revenue detailing _WHO_ qualifies as an "independent contractor" and _WHO_ is in actuality an "employee". Many companies have found themselves in deep legal and tax "doo doo" when they THOUGHT what were their "independent contractors" were actually ruled by state and federal authorities to be "employees". Let’s see – 1000s in Social Security taxes, liabilities for "employees" actions, unemployment compensation taxes, medicare taxes, workman’s comp taxes, sales taxes (if the distributor hasn’t paid them), Federal Income Tax witholding, etc. Actually probably the most significant of these is the liability for "employees" actions. There are many things that an "independent contractor" might do that is not "illegal" but none the less damages someone and that "someone" sues the "independent contractor". But if the "independent contractor" is then ruled to be an "employee" – well, guess who is then responsible? Yep, the MLM company! Now, Phil, when a company has thousands "distributors" how in the living day lites are they going to be aware of and effectively regulate the level of ethics and personal qualities of every one of them? I know that this is not going to answer your question like you want to but it is the reality. MLMs can try to foster an environment of ethical business dealings but cannot enforce much unless what the representative is doing is illegal or misrepresenting the products or playing "doctor", etc. >Your reference to a "fine line" seems to imply that there’s some legal >reason why an MLM couldn’t specify ethical behavior for its independent >representatives. Do you care to back that up? Can you cite any legal >precedent where some company got in trouble by specifying ethical behavior >for some "independent" representative as a prerequisite for doing business?
Yep, there are legal reasons. You bet. I mentioned the mailings from the Washington State Dept. of Revenue. They listed numerous things that an "indepedent contractor" must have independence in to be legally "independent". It’s enough to make any business that uses "independents" to shudder! Frankly I am no legal beagle and don’t care to and neither do I have the time to go searching for the legal precedence cases, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If there’s no legal precedent, could you cite, say, some Federal Guidelines >that say something about the limitations that a company can have on an >Independent Representative? >Do you remember the little bruhaha about MLMs and their success rate? I >asked why MLMs can’t tell me the predicted success rate: >Of 1000 MLMers who join this company, how many are clearing more than >$2000/month in revenue 12 months later? >Note: everybody is clear that this is only a predictor of performance. On >the other hand, if MLM X has 2% of its members making this goal and MLM Q >has 1/10 of 1% of its members make this goal, then I may use that >information to help come to a conclusion about which MLM to join. >Did you see the nonsense responses? People claimed that it would be >*illegal* to provide such information! What a load of nonsense! When I >asked them to say why it would be illegal, nobody could ever cite anything. >I don’t think you can, either. >Will you take up the challenge? Can you provide a legal reference which >will demonstrate that MLMs couldn’t enforce ethical guidelines on their >representatives? Please back up your assertion that I am "dead wrong", >Keith.
Actually I saw the Amway distributor kit and they do state in the fine print some figures on the paperwork to become a distributor what the average earnings are, etc. I don’t think that it is "illegal" at all. It probably changes a lot. And in some companies (most, in fact) the majority of the "distributors" actually only _USE_ the products. They have joined the plan because they want the product at a lower cost than retail. In many cases the figures would be ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS! I will state why below. In MLM there are myriads of different marketing plans that complicate interpretations of the statistics you are requesting. Let’s say, for example, that company _A_ requires that for someone to be a distributor (rather than just a retail purchaser) that they first pay $49.95 for a distributor kit then they personally purchase at least $100 of products per month and retail out 70% of this personal purchase (this is common btw). Now, in such an organization you are going to have a higher percentage of distributors who make more money simply because they have the committment to the business end of things and have fewer distributors to base your statistics on. Now, along comes company _B_ which has NO signup kit to purchase, free sign up with no renewal fees, no retailing, no obligation to ever purchase something else again, and everyone who purchases is a "distributor" even if they don’t purchase for over a year. The requirements to be a "distributor" are entirely different. Company _B_ is much more likely to have a "distributor" base that only buys products with a low percentage of truly active marketers. How can you make a reasonable statistical comparison? LIFE PLUS – Wholesale Nutrition that WORKS! Data Sheets Prices, Human and Animal Testimonials, Free Audio Tape Offer *** http://www.joyservices.com *** Keith Drown – Indep Rep. Who YOU Are Is Your Gift From God… What You Make of Yourself Is YOUR Gift To God…. Ron Baker
Response:
My apologies, Keith, and thanks for the correction Phil. I’ve been lurking here a while, but obviously didn’t pay close enough attention to the policies 
. Ashley >Drown) writes: >What I found out in practicality though and advise my downline >appropriately is that it is far better to get into what a newsgroup is >all about and not post ads, or spam, but discuss the issues, learn, >listen, and contribute. If one does that it attracts attention and >makes for good will and increased business. >LIFE PLUS – Wholesale Nutrition that WORKS! Data Sheets >Prices, Human and Animal Testimonials, Free Audio Tape Offer >*** http://www.joyservices.com *** Keith Drown – Indep Rep. >…and of course, leave the advertising to your sig. lines
Ashley, what Keith is doing is completely proper and within the guidelines for our newsgroup. On this newsgroup, anyone who wishes to is more than welcome to "hang a shingle" in their .signature file. And Keith is discussing on-topic material for the newsgroup. We state agreed-upon group policy in a weekly posting "*** NOTICE ** No Advertising in this newsgroup". I posted it today. If you would like me to e-mail you a copy, please send me a message. If you would like to discuss/suggest amendments to/etc. the policies in that message, please post a message to the newsgroup. While I often disagree with Keith, he has worked hard to keep his postings consistent with the guidelines for our newsgroup. I applaud his example. >Ashley
–phil
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Wrong. It’s trivial to modify human behavior: >You make an assertion, but you don’t back it up. Read below. >>Let’s face the facts: the MLMs could quickly end the commercial abuses that >>their representatives participate in. But they don’t (or, at least, haven’t >>yet). >The practicality is that MLMers are each independent businesses. >There is a "legal fine line" between an mlm company having an >"independent contractor" and an "employee". An mlm company can >suggest how to effectively do business and enhance the distributor’s >and company’s image but cannot do much about "unethical" practices so >long as those practices are not illegal or misreprenting the mlm >company or products such as making wild income claims or saying a >product will "cure" etc. >Why not? >Why can’t an MLM dictate that its "independent" representatives operate >with ethics? Why can’t they pull someone’s account if they Spam the >Internet?
Who is going to define what are "ethics"? Who is going to define what is Spam"? Those can be very different things to different folks and courts. AND if a company goes about dictating TOO many aspects of a distributor’s business the distributor has fewer choices to choose from and may not find what is effective for them. AND you can bet that there ARE legal differences between what an "employee" is and an "independent contractor" is. My business is registered in the State of Washington and have on several occaisions received mailings from the State Dept of Revenue detailing _WHO_ qualifies as an "independent contractor" and _WHO_ is in actuality an "employee". Many companies have found themselves in deep legal and tax "doo doo" when they THOUGHT what were their "independent contractors" were actually ruled by state and federal authorities to be "employees". Let’s see – 1000s in Social Security taxes, liabilities for "employees" actions, unemployment compensation taxes, medicare taxes, workman’s comp taxes, sales taxes (if the distributor hasn’t paid them), Federal Income Tax witholding, etc. Actually probably the most significant of these is the liability for "employees" actions. There are many things that an "independent contractor" might do that is not "illegal" but none the less damages someone and that "someone" sues the "independent contractor". But if the "independent contractor" is then ruled to be an "employee" – well, guess who is then responsible? Yep, the MLM company! Now, Phil, when a company has thousands "distributors" how in the living day lites are they going to be aware of and effectively regulate the level of ethics and personal qualities of every one of them? I know that this is not going to answer your question like you want to but it is the reality. MLMs can try to foster an environment of ethical business dealings but cannot enforce much unless what the representative is doing is illegal or misrepresenting the products or playing "doctor", etc. >Your reference to a "fine line" seems to imply that there’s some legal >reason why an MLM couldn’t specify ethical behavior for its independent >representatives. Do you care to back that up? Can you cite any legal >precedent where some company got in trouble by specifying ethical behavior >for some "independent" representative as a prerequisite for doing business?
Yep, there are legal reasons. You bet. I mentioned the mailings from the Washington State Dept. of Revenue. They listed numerous things that an "indepedent contractor" must have independence in to be legally "independent". It’s enough to make any business that uses "independents" to shudder! Frankly I am no legal beagle and don’t care to and neither do I have the time to go searching for the legal precedence cases, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If there’s no legal precedent, could you cite, say, some Federal Guidelines >that say something about the limitations that a company can have on an >Independent Representative? >Do you remember the little bruhaha about MLMs and their success rate? I >asked why MLMs can’t tell me the predicted success rate: >Of 1000 MLMers who join this company, how many are clearing more than >$2000/month in revenue 12 months later? >Note: everybody is clear that this is only a predictor of performance. On >the other hand, if MLM X has 2% of its members making this goal and MLM Q >has 1/10 of 1% of its members make this goal, then I may use that >information to help come to a conclusion about which MLM to join. >Did you see the nonsense responses? People claimed that it would be >*illegal* to provide such information! What a load of nonsense! When I >asked them to say why it would be illegal, nobody could ever cite anything. >I don’t think you can, either. >Will you take up the challenge? Can you provide a legal reference which >will demonstrate that MLMs couldn’t enforce ethical guidelines on their >representatives? Please back up your assertion that I am "dead wrong", >Keith.
Actually I saw the Amway distributor kit and they do state in the fine print some figures on the paperwork to become a distributor what the average earnings are, etc. I don’t think that it is "illegal" at all. It probably changes a lot. And in some companies (most, in fact) the majority of the "distributors" actually only _USE_ the products. They have joined the plan because they want the product at a lower cost than retail. In many cases the figures would be ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS! I will state why below. In MLM there are myriads of different marketing plans that complicate interpretations of the statistics you are requesting. Let’s say, for example, that company _A_ requires that for someone to be a distributor (rather than just a retail purchaser) that they first pay $49.95 for a distributor kit then they personally purchase at least $100 of products per month and retail out 70% of this personal purchase (this is common btw). Now, in such an organization you are going to have a higher percentage of distributors who make more money simply because they have the committment to the business end of things and have fewer distributors to base your statistics on. Now, along comes company _B_ which has NO signup kit to purchase, free sign up with no renewal fees, no retailing, no obligation to ever purchase something else again, and everyone who purchases is a "distributor" even if they don’t purchase for over a year. The requirements to be a "distributor" are entirely different. Company _B_ is much more likely to have a "distributor" base that only buys products with a low percentage of truly active marketers. How can you make a reasonable statistical comparison?
Response:
>>There are numerous training programs out there offered >by companies, uplines, and other organizations. However, >it is no easy task to either train or mandate human >behavior. This is no one’s fault, I think, but just part >of the human condition. >Wrong. It’s trivial to modify human behavior:
Nope, dead wrong! Read below. >Dear MLM Representatives: >It has come to our attention that some of your are using the Internet to >improperly promote your business. Specifically, some of you are sending >unsolicited e-mail to people promoting your business. Others are sending >advertisements to Usenet newsgroups that don’t permit advertising. >If we hear of an MLM representative that is doing these things, we will >investigate. Here are the consequences for doing such things [...]. >Let’s face the facts: the MLMs could quickly end the commercial abuses that >their representatives participate in. But they don’t (or, at least, haven’t >yet).
The practicality is that MLMers are each independent businesses. There is a "legal fine line" between an mlm company having an "independent contractor" and an "employee". An mlm company can suggest how to effectively do business and enhance the distributor’s and company’s image but cannot do much about "unethical" practices so long as those practices are not illegal or misreprenting the mlm company or products such as making wild income claims or saying a product will "cure" etc. What I found out in practicality though and advise my downline appropriately is that it is far better to get into what a newsgroup is all about and not post ads, or spam, but discuss the issues, learn, listen, and contribute. If one does that it attracts attention and makes for good will and increased business. LIFE PLUS – Wholesale Nutrition that WORKS! Data Sheets Prices, Human and Animal Testimonials, Free Audio Tape Offer *** http://www.joyservices.com *** Keith Drown – Indep Rep. Who YOU Are Is Your Gift From God… What You Make of Yourself Is YOUR Gift To God…. Ron Baker
Response:
>Drown) writes: >What I found out in practicality though and advise my downline >appropriately is that it is far better to get into what a newsgroup is >all about and not post ads, or spam, but discuss the issues, learn, >listen, and contribute. If one does that it attracts attention and >makes for good will and increased business. >LIFE PLUS – Wholesale Nutrition that WORKS! Data Sheets >Prices, Human and Animal Testimonials, Free Audio Tape Offer >*** http://www.joyservices.com *** Keith Drown – Indep Rep. >…and of course, leave the advertising to your sig. lines
Ashley, what Keith is doing is completely proper and within the guidelines for our newsgroup. On this newsgroup, anyone who wishes to is more than welcome to "hang a shingle" in their .signature file. And Keith is discussing on-topic material for the newsgroup. We state agreed-upon group policy in a weekly posting "*** NOTICE ** No Advertising in this newsgroup". I posted it today. If you would like me to e-mail you a copy, please send me a message. If you would like to discuss/suggest amendments to/etc. the policies in that message, please post a message to the newsgroup. While I often disagree with Keith, he has worked hard to keep his postings consistent with the guidelines for our newsgroup. I applaud his example. >Ashley
–phil
Response:
> >If we hear of an MLM representative that is doing these things, we will >investigate. Here are the consequences for doing such things [...].
Oh, I thought an example would be in order here, sort of an aol top ten from news.admin.net-abuse.misc, there are others! Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.announce Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.misc Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 55 NNTP-Posting-Host: ngsoap01.news.aol.com This is an abbreviated report of USENET abuse by current and ex-America Online members. Inclusion in this report indicates that as of this date, local action has been or is in the process of being taken against the poster. This action may include the cancelation of inappropriate articles, written warnings and account termination where merited. No further reports about these users are necessary. To report an instance of USENET abuse which doesn’t appear on this report, send copy of the USENET article, including all headers, to help us more quickly respond. To make an emergency report of abuse, send complete copies of America Online’s USENET Terms of Service (acceptable usage policies) are available via anonymous FTP at the site listed below. Comments, suggestions and criticisms regarding the AUP are welcome via e-mail ftp://ftp.aol.com/pub/usenet/aol-usenet-aup.txt. The users who are listed below have already been reported to America Online for USENET abuse. Due to account privacy concerns, we are unable to provide details of the specific actions taken. USER asldkjgiw captaintlg cashcop datenet derartz dmtrooper foxmoulder jkmeprises needhitman palamootil shackm8654 teribj69 useitagain vadam Internet Development Outreach & Technology America Online, Inc. — All postings to news.admin.net-abuse.announce are unconfirmed and unverified unless stated otherwise by the moderators. All opinions expressed above are considered the opinions of the original poster, not the moderators or their respective employers. For a copy of the guidelines to this group, see: http://www.math.psu.edu/barr/net-abuse-guidelines.html Regards, — The Buffalo SpringBoard (retro)-Articles: Melatonin, Folate, DHEA, etc.; Discount Sources Listing, Herpes Alternatives Page http://www.quake.net/~xdcrlab/hp.html ULTRANET: Ultrasound Technology Graphic Hot Links http://www.quake.net/~xdcrlab/Ultrasound.html Save the BW, I report unsolicited commercial email -> Blacklist of Internet Advertisers: http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~cbrown/BL/
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Drown) writes: >The practicality is that MLMers are each independent businesses. >There is a "legal fine line" between an mlm company having an >"independent contractor" and an "employee". An mlm company can >suggest how to effectively do business and enhance the distributor’s >and company’s image but cannot do much about "unethical" practices so >long as those practices are not illegal or misreprenting the mlm >company or products such as making wild income claims or saying a >product will "cure" etc. >What I found out in practicality though and advise my downline >appropriately is that it is far better to get into what a newsgroup is >all about and not post ads, or spam, but discuss the issues, learn, >listen, and contribute. If one does that it attracts attention and >makes for good will and increased business. >LIFE PLUS – Wholesale Nutrition that WORKS! Data Sheets >Prices, Human and Animal Testimonials, Free Audio Tape Offer >*** http://www.joyservices.com *** Keith Drown – Indep Rep. >Who YOU Are Is Your Gift From God… What You >Make of Yourself Is YOUR Gift To God…. Ron Baker
…and of course, leave the advertising to your sig. lines Ashley "Cheerfulness and contentment are great beautifiers and are famous preservers of youthful looks" Charles Dickens "Take away my capacity for pain and you rob me of the possibility of joy" Ross W. Marrs
Response:
Drown) writes: >Actually Jet, I only send the tapes out to people who request them. >One of these days I will upgrade my Forte Free Agent newsreader to the >paid version which will allow me to filter out messages from worthless >posters like youself. >LIFE PLUS – Wholesale Nutrition that WORKS! Data Sheets >Prices, Human and Animal Testimonials, Free Audio Tape Offer >*** http://www.joyservices.com *** Keith Drown – Indep Rep.
LifePlus. Aren’t you guys selling powdered colloidal minerals? I thought colloidal minerals had to be liquid. http://triemme.com/performance/ Jerry Connelly, MEd, ATC, CSCS Strength Builds Excellence The Training Room, Inc. PrimeQuest International Executive Envion International Independent Associate- Life is Better in the Zone
Response:
>Yes, there is a MLM company who does not even permit us to advertise on >the net.
I appreciate your intention to not say the name of the company. Without naming the MLM, could you please state the specifics of the policy. What do they not permit on the Internet? What are the consequences for breaking this policy? > We do not have to have nutrition training, but are not >allowed to make unauthorized claims for our products.
I believe that the restrictions on making "unauthorized" claims are pretty standard. For better or worse, that has more to do with FDA restrictions than anything else. >Sandy Abrams
-=-phil
Response:
>>Wrong. It’s trivial to modify human behavior: >Nope, dead wrong! Read below.
You make an assertion, but you don’t back it up. Read below. >Let’s face the facts: the MLMs could quickly end the commercial abuses that >their representatives participate in. But they don’t (or, at least, haven’t >yet). >The practicality is that MLMers are each independent businesses. >There is a "legal fine line" between an mlm company having an >"independent contractor" and an "employee". An mlm company can >suggest how to effectively do business and enhance the distributor’s >and company’s image but cannot do much about "unethical" practices so >long as those practices are not illegal or misreprenting the mlm >company or products such as making wild income claims or saying a >product will "cure" etc.
Why not? Why can’t an MLM dictate that its "independent" representatives operate with ethics? Why can’t they pull someone’s account if they Spam the Internet? Your reference to a "fine line" seems to imply that there’s some legal reason why an MLM couldn’t specify ethical behavior for its independent representatives. Do you care to back that up? Can you cite any legal precedent where some company got in trouble by specifying ethical behavior for some "independent" representative as a prerequisite for doing business? If there’s no legal precedent, could you cite, say, some Federal Guidelines that say something about the limitations that a company can have on an Independent Representative? Do you remember the little bruhaha about MLMs and their success rate? I asked why MLMs can’t tell me the predicted success rate: Of 1000 MLMers who join this company, how many are clearing more than $2000/month in revenue 12 months later? Note: everybody is clear that this is only a predictor of performance. On the other hand, if MLM X has 2% of its members making this goal and MLM Q has 1/10 of 1% of its members make this goal, then I may use that information to help come to a conclusion about which MLM to join. Did you see the nonsense responses? People claimed that it would be *illegal* to provide such information! What a load of nonsense! When I asked them to say why it would be illegal, nobody could ever cite anything. I don’t think you can, either. Will you take up the challenge? Can you provide a legal reference which will demonstrate that MLMs couldn’t enforce ethical guidelines on their representatives? Please back up your assertion that I am "dead wrong", Keith. > Keith Drown – Indep Rep.
–phil
Response:
>: Who’s paying for it? A bunch of non-thinking MLMers who are sending them out COLD >: without any contact or indication of interest from the receivers. They THINK that they >: can get rich over night by simply sending out tapes cold when they really should be >: working to help by adding value to peoples lives and value to their businesses. Rather sad. >Are you sending one of your marketing tapes as you write this? Do you >enjoy having no morals or shame at all? >J
Actually Jet, I only send the tapes out to people who request them. One of these days I will upgrade my Forte Free Agent newsreader to the paid version which will allow me to filter out messages from worthless posters like youself. LIFE PLUS – Wholesale Nutrition that WORKS! Data Sheets Prices, Human and Animal Testimonials, Free Audio Tape Offer *** http://www.joyservices.com *** Keith Drown – Indep Rep. Who YOU Are Is Your Gift From God… What You Make of Yourself Is YOUR Gift To God…. Ron Baker
Response:
I just received my tenth "dead doctor" tape. They just keep on coming. Who’s paying for all this??? (That’s a rhetorical question. ) —A "live doctor" Larry Bickford, OD Adult and Pediatric Vision Care Santa Barbara, Ca. The EyeCare Connection & CyberLens Service http://www.west.net/~eyecare ftp:west.net/pub/users/eyecare
Response:
>It is ONE of the tapes that I distribute along with literature. It’s >interesting to listen to and entertaining. Frankly though I am having >more results with other tapes that are more "level headed" and perhaps >a little less "entertaining" and are more "credible."
It should be noted, however, that much of the hype comes from overzealous marketers with the Dead Docs Tape. The actual lecture itself contains some good information, including the demineralization of our soils and the fact the mineral deficiency is a modern plague of our industrialized society. A number of well-known doctors in the alternative field, including Dr. Bernard Jensen, have spent their entire lifetime devoted to documenting mineral deficiences. Almost all degenerative illness has a corresponding pattern of mineral deficiencies. These important points should not be lost. Average testing shows that our soils are sadly demineralized. I agree, with you though, Keith, regarding the use of tapes as just as tool in the process. I feel sad that people are just mailing out the tapes cold too as it gives the industry a wasteful reputation. 10 tapes that some people have received? Honestly! Diane "If I Listened to My Doctors, I’d Be DEAD!" Visit Kitty’s Korner at http://www2.bitstream.net/~labeaty/kitty We specialize in lifetime friendships!
Response:
> I just received my tenth "dead doctor" tape. > They just keep on coming. Who’s paying for all this??? (That’s a > rhetorical question. ) > —A "live doctor"
Who’s paying for it? A bunch of non-thinking MLMers who are sending them out COLD without any contact or indication of interest from the receivers. They THINK that they can get rich over night by simply sending out tapes cold when they really should be working to help by adding value to peoples lives and value to their businesses. Rather sad. FREE tape "Medical Doctors Speak Out" – 6 MDs talk about Proanthenols – Life Plus products, prices, human and animal testimonials – http://www.joyservices.com/joy/ What you are is God’s gift to you… What you make of yourself is your gift to God… — Ron Baker
Response:
>Who’s paying for it? A bunch of non-thinking MLMers who are sending them out COLD >without any contact or indication of interest from the receivers. They THINK that they >can get rich over night by simply sending out tapes cold when they really should be >working to help by adding value to peoples lives and value to their businesses. Rather sad.
Do the MLMs tell their reps that such things are not fruitful? Similarly, do any MLMs tell their reps that posting "free" advertisements to newsgroups — and e-mail spamming — will not bear fruit, either? Clearly, reps must apply liberal amounts of common sense to be successful. But I don’t feel it’s proper to place all the blame on the individuals. After all, part of what you’re buying from the MLM is tools to effectively sell product; the MLM should be able to tell you what doesn’t work. –phil
Response:
>>Who’s paying for it? A bunch of non-thinking MLMers who are sending them out COLD >without any contact or indication of interest from the receivers.
They THINK that they >can get rich over night by simply sending out tapes cold when they really should be >working to help by adding value to peoples lives and value to their
businesses. Rather sad. >Do the MLMs tell their reps that such things are not fruitful? >Similarly, do any MLMs tell their reps that posting "free" advertisements >to newsgroups — and e-mail spamming — will not bear fruit, either? >Clearly, reps must apply liberal amounts of common sense to be successful. >But I don’t feel it’s proper to place all the blame on the individuals. >After all, part of what you’re buying from the MLM is tools to effectively >sell product; the MLM should be able to tell you what doesn’t work.
Phil: There are numerous training programs out there offered by companies, uplines, and other organizations. However, it is no easy task to either train or mandate human behavior. This is no one’s fault, I think, but just part of the human condition. Cheers! Kitty (Diane) "If I Listened to My Doctors, I’d Be DEAD!" Visit Kitty’s Korner at http://www2.bitstream.net/~labeaty/kitty We specialize in lifetime friendships!
Response:
: Who’s paying for it? A bunch of non-thinking MLMers who are sending them out COLD : without any contact or indication of interest from the receivers. They THINK that they : can get rich over night by simply sending out tapes cold when they really should be : working to help by adding value to peoples lives and value to their businesses. Rather sad. Are you sending one of your marketing tapes as you write this? Do you enjoy having no morals or shame at all? J
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Earnhardt) writes: >>Similarly, do any MLMs tell their reps that posting "free" >>advertisements to newsgroups — and e-mail spamming — >>will not bear fruit, either? >>Clearly, reps must apply liberal amounts of common sense to be >>successful. But I don’t feel it’s proper to place all the blame on the >>individuals. After all, part of what you’re buying from the MLM is tools to >>effectively sell product; the MLM should be able to tell you what doesn’t work. >Phil: >There are numerous training programs out there offered >by companies, uplines, and other organizations. However, >it is no easy task to either train or mandate human >behavior. This is no one’s fault, I think, but just part >of the human condition. >Wrong. It’s trivial to modify human behavior: >Dear MLM Representatives: >It has come to our attention that some of your are using the Internet to >improperly promote your business. Specifically, some of you are sending >unsolicited e-mail to people promoting your business. Others are sending >advertisements to Usenet newsgroups that don’t permit advertising. >If we hear of an MLM representative that is doing these things, we will >investigate. Here are the consequences for doing such things [...]. >Now: what do you think that such a message would do? >Let’s face the facts: the MLMs could quickly end the commercial abuses that >their representatives participate in. But they don’t (or, at least, haven’t >yet). >Are there any MLMs out there that instruct their members to be responsible >in their use of the Internet? >Cheers! >Kitty (Diane) >–phil
Yes, there is a MLM company who does not even permit us to advertise on the net. We do not have to have nutrition training, but are not allowed to make unauthorized claims for our products. We have lay training from some of the most well respected people available, such as one who teaches nutrition to the med students at a premier medical school, several MDs who are nutritionally aware, the founder of the only accredited home study school of nutrition, (GI bill etc.), a Cornell trained nutritionist, and others. We learn well accepted nutritional principles and concepts. The reason I have not identified them is that I am not trying to advertise here. If you are interested, please contact me privately and I will be happy to discuss how we are trained and how we work, which, by the way, does not include mass mailings of anything. Sandy Abrams
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>…..Seems rather snooty to criticize MLM folks who happen to also own a >computer and attend these newsgroups. Most MLM folks that I come in >contact with do make an effort to make contact with a prospect, then send >the tape, or video, or brochure. Frankly only here in the newsgroups is a >MLM marketer told he is doing it wrong. Acutally, Usenet groups are like >a bulletin board. If we want to buy something we post a 3×5 card(so to >speak) and someone comes along and responds. The same holds true for MLM >folks.
Wrongo, and shows the folly of working too closely using analogies. This newsgroups is like a bulletin board with a sign at the top that says "don’t post any ads here." Many MLM-ers either don’t read the sign, or do but ignore it. This ain’t exactly good behavior. > If you don’t wish to read them, then just read your index and don’t >open up the file….simple… Please don’t waste any more time >critiquing marketing methods most of us know nothing about.
And please don’t you waste any more time making suggestions that do not make sense in all contexts. 1) My newsreader doesn’t work by putting up an index. 2) Even if it did, not all ads say "AD" in their subject line. This where some idiot usually chimes in and says "well, don’t read them if you don’t want to read ads." Except that such idiots are overlooking the fact that you have to read the damn things to find out that they’re ads. These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "The Internet is the bastard love-child of Thomas Pynchon and Cyndi Lauper." – Deaddog
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: >>Who’s paying for it? A bunch of non-thinking MLMers who are sending them out COLD without any contact or indication of interest from the receivers. They THINK that they can get rich over night……. : >Do the MLMs tell their reps that such things are not fruitful? Similarly, do any MLMs tell their reps that posting "free" advertisements to newsgroups — and e-mail spamming — will not bear fruit, either? : Clearly, reps must apply liberal amounts of common sense to be : Phil: There are numerous training programs out there offered by companies, uplines, and other organizations. However…… : Cheers! : Kitty (Diane) …..Seems rather snooty to criticize MLM folks who happen to also own a computer and attend these newsgroups. Most MLM folks that I come in contact with do make an effort to make contact with a prospect, then send the tape, or video, or brochure. Frankly only here in the newsgroups is a MLM marketer told he is doing it wrong. Acutally, Usenet groups are like a bulletin board. If we want to buy something we post a 3×5 card(so to speak) and someone comes along and responds. The same holds true for MLM folks. If you don’t wish to read them, then just read your index and don ‘t open up the file….simple… Please don’t waste any more time critiquing marketing methods most of us know nothing about. "Keep on Keepin’ On", Rod MacDonald A&D Atari Software | GEnie: ST-INFORMER | Fax: (541)479-1825 | 909 NW Starlite Place | CIS: 75300,2514 | Order(800)800-2563 | Grants Pass, OR 97526 | | MC/Visa/Discover | World Wide Web URL: http://www.chatlink.com/~stinformer
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The following text was pulled from an MLMer who was posting to another group (I’d rather not promote him; look it up in Alta Vista if you care…): >Announcing the most powerful recruiting cassette tape that has ever been >used in networkmarketing,