Business History Books » Business Plans » Rules Regarding Weather Delays
Rules Regarding Weather Delays
Question:
In article >appear as if it was written: >this comes down to a feeling about the degree of resonsibility that a >vendor should feel towards a customer. i think vendors should be looking > to cater to and please the customer, rather than ennumerate conditions >under which they will not accept or even share responsibilty for the customers >satisfaction. its an old fashioned notion of business but i still like it. >Well of course you like it, since you (and only you, not you and the >company) win!
actually, i believe i suggested that the responsibity be shared but in any case there are some who hold that a business wins when the customer is satisfied. i for one (and i expect a lot of people here) would select an airline that provides service over one who doesn’t. presumably this would result in increased revenues for the airline over their competitors. i think this is the thrust of UA’s new ad campaign. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->However, the phrase "old fashioned" seems particularly out of place, since >minimal responsibility for "Act of God" delays has been a part of travel >since before the age of steam! Road, ship, rail, you name it: acts of God >such as severe weather are just weather. >>Second: You are sure that the airlines know precisely how often weather >>delays will occur. I’m not. Sure, they may know statistically that X% of >>flights will be delayed, but that’s of no use when figuring out if flight >>1234 is going to be able to run on time. And given that a thunderstorm in >>Dallas may cause the cancellation of a flight between New York and DC (due >>to the equipment still sitting in Dallas), this is really a non-trivial >>problem. >hey…you know…they could increase the scheduled time between turn >arounds…have bigger fleets etc…i know it increase the costs….and all that.. >but i figure that the 5-10% of the time that i get jammed up at an >approximate cost of $200, factors in my travel expenses anyway. >Your solution imposes the increased costs on everybody, regardless of >whether they care or not! And the General Public has proved, time after >time, that saving every penny is more important to them than improving >service.
this is an assertion and i have never seen evidence of that. airlines that follow this strategy do exist, and are profitable (the budget ones) but so are the majors which in general have higher tix prices and provide more services. we could do a little poll here, how many would spend X dollars more to fly on an airline with more service? certainly the limit of this arguement is 1st class. that is priced so outragiously that most people can’t afford it…i would pay between 50-100 more (depending on ticket price) for i) more legroom, ii) more FA’s on long flights iii) better baggage handling, iv) the weather thing, etc. >The correct solution to *your* unhappiness with the status quo is for *you* >to purchase insurance to cover you against costs incurred by unavoidable >delays.
not really, that takes care of the financial burden but i object to what i see as an abdication of responsibity by the airline. proposing another mechanism by which i can assume that responsibity does not speak to my issue. >perhaps the more interesting question is why they feel that mechanical >problems are within their control but weather isn’t…. >Hmmm… how about because mechanical problems can be fixed by them, and >weather isn’t?
not sure how this argument works…certainly you can imagine unforseen mechanical problems (which i contend all mechanical problems should be considered if maintainence is done properly) which can not be resolved in a time frame which would allow the traveller to make his connection/meeting etc, no matter how heroic the efforts of the mechanics. >However, you missed my point: if you wake up one morning, and you’re snowed >in (or flooded out, or the road is made impassable by a storm, whatever), >who do you blame? And why… ?
i don’t blame anyone….assigning blame and accepting responsibitly are two seperate issues. if it is winter, and i live in a snowy climate, and i have an important meeting, i make every possible effort to make contingency plans. i expect that the weather may not cooperate, and i don’t consider that unforseen, that is pretty predictable, therefore i accept responsibilty. for important events i take full responsibilty for being there and don’t expect my problems to become problems for my supervisors or customers. if it means personal incovienience like sleeping in my office, or leaving early on the chance that "unforseen" events (ie: traffic, my car failing etc) may interfere i i accept that i have to pay that cost as part of responsibly meeting my job. if i don’t show up, i feel that i have failed to meet my responsibility, my boss may or may not be understanding, that is their perogative. i have slept in my office at the hospital when a road closing snow storm was predicted in order to insure that i would be able to deliver the services expected of me…i expect my employees make every effort to do the same. btw – these arguments always come down to maintaining the cheapest possible fare. i don’t know about the other airlines but DL showed 51% profitibility last year, it seems that they could afford to provide some increased services. companies like LL Bean, Timerberland, Neiman-Marcus etc come to mind who consider customer service and satisfaction their most important product. i choose to deal with them PRIMARILY for this reason, as i expect many of their customers do. btw – i am pretty certain that the costs of business travel have increased very sharply over the past 5 years, to the point where the airlines have bled business just about dry and the backlash and efforts at cost cutting have begun. i don’t see evidence on the part of the airlines to cut the costs of travel provided except to the casual traveller.
Response:
appear as if it was written: >First: The airline is always willing to provide the contracted service. >Your mistake is to assume that schedule or time information forms a part of >the contract, which it explicitly doesn’t. >this comes down to a feeling about the degree of resonsibility that a >vendor should feel towards a customer. i think vendors should be looking > to cater to and please the customer, rather than ennumerate conditions >under which they will not accept or even share responsibilty for the customers >satisfaction. its an old fashioned notion of business but i still like it.
Well of course you like it, since you (and only you, not you and the company) win! However, the phrase "old fashioned" seems particularly out of place, since minimal responsibility for "Act of God" delays has been a part of travel since before the age of steam! Road, ship, rail, you name it: acts of God such as severe weather are just weather. >Second: You are sure that the airlines know precisely how often weather >delays will occur. I’m not. Sure, they may know statistically that X% of >flights will be delayed, but that’s of no use when figuring out if flight >1234 is going to be able to run on time. And given that a thunderstorm in >Dallas may cause the cancellation of a flight between New York and DC (due >to the equipment still sitting in Dallas), this is really a non-trivial >problem. >hey…you know…they could increase the scheduled time between turn >arounds…have bigger fleets etc…i know it increase the costs….and all that.. >but i figure that the 5-10% of the time that i get jammed up at an >approximate cost of $200, factors in my travel expenses anyway.
Your solution imposes the increased costs on everybody, regardless of whether they care or not! And the General Public has proved, time after time, that saving every penny is more important to them than improving service. The correct solution to *your* unhappiness with the status quo is for *you* to purchase insurance to cover you against costs incurred by unavoidable delays. >perhaps the more interesting question is why they feel that mechanical >problems are within their control but weather isn’t….
Hmmm… how about because mechanical problems can be fixed by them, and weather isn’t? >i would prefer that they do everything the can to avert mechanical >problems and that if they occur they say "we did everything possible >therefore it isn’t our fault" the fact that they are willing to accept responsibility >for mechanicals but not weather implies that they have some control >over the mechanical failures.
They *could* reduce the number of times they have to unexpectedly take an aircraft out of service by increasing the amount of time each aircraft spends under maintenance, increasing the number of "spare" aircraft, and performing more pro-active replacements, etc. All of which drive the cost up… which the public doesn’t want. And your "solution" of increasing costs and then not accepting responsibility wouldn’t survive contact with a litigous traveller, and the world is full of *them* these days… so it’s no solution. >Third: We all live in exactly the same world as the airlines. Weather >really shouldn’t surprise you! If you are trying to drive from (say) LA to >SF, you may get delayed by snow, duststorms, or rain… who would you >complain to then? >if my limo service didn’t show up to pick me up because their car was >delayed in another city due to weather and the weather in my city was >A-OK you can damn sure bet i wouldn’t contract with them again…i would >ask them something like "why don’t you have contingency planning?"
And they’d answer "Because you (in general, not specific) don’t want to pay for it. And that’s what insurance is for…" However, you missed my point: if you wake up one morning, and you’re snowed in (or flooded out, or the road is made impassable by a storm, whatever), who do you blame? And why… ? Malc.
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appear as if it was written: >I think they will tell you they don’t have to do anything if it is weather >related. >that is interesting, isn’t it. >the weather is uncontrollable, i agree with that. >when the weather intereferes with a travellers plans, the travellers bears >the FULL financial burden of this event which is outside of the control of >both parties. the carrier accepts no responsibilty and therefore, somehow it >becomes FULLY the passengers problem. given that the carrier operates >in an environment where they know they will not always be able to deliver >the contracted service (and i am sure they know precisely how frequent this >will be) it seems they should share in the responsibility.
Interesting logic, but full of holes, I’m afraid. First: The airline is always willing to provide the contracted service. Your mistake is to assume that schedule or time information forms a part of the contract, which it explicitly doesn’t. Second: You are sure that the airlines know precisely how often weather delays will occur. I’m not. Sure, they may know statistically that X% of flights will be delayed, but that’s of no use when figuring out if flight 1234 is going to be able to run on time. And given that a thunderstorm in Dallas may cause the cancellation of a flight between New York and DC (due to the equipment still sitting in Dallas), this is really a non-trivial problem. Third: We all live in exactly the same world as the airlines. Weather really shouldn’t surprise you! If you are trying to drive from (say) LA to SF, you may get delayed by snow, duststorms, or rain… who would you complain to then? Malc.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >year, was a leisure traveler with this airline. He began a new job a >> >few months ago (and I followed him) that requires relatively frequent >> >business travel. So he currently has in excess of 40,000 miles in his >> >account, but he does not have elite status this year. He’s already >> >earned it for next year though. So my point is that if he had been an >> >elite FF, he may have received more attention. >> This cannot be true. If he has achieved elite status for next year, he >> automatically has it for the balance of this year too. >> — >> Steve >Thanks for clarifying, Steve. Do you know this to be the case on all >the majors? Obviously, it doesn’t matter for this particular situation, >but I’m just curious. I’ll ask him tomorrow if he has received >notification from this airline of his current elite status. > I know it’s true on Delta, Continental, American, and USAirways. I’m pretty > sure it’s standard everywhere. Also, you snipped off part of the original > post but I seem to recall that the airline in question was Delta. > — > Steve
Not only that, but you are Elite when the mileage is recorded and don’t have to wait until you receive the card. Michael
Response:
> >I know the airline I work for will not do any compensation for weather delays >or cancellations……however for Mechanicals we will.,….we can’t help what >mother nature decides to do > neither can the passenger…perhaps it would be more equitable to split > the consequences > of uncontrollable circumstances a bit more equally between the parties?
Why??? Why should the airline be held equally responsible for paying the costs? Michael
Response:
In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >appear as if it was written: >I think they will tell you they don’t have to do anything if it is weather >related. >that is interesting, isn’t it. >the weather is uncontrollable, i agree with that. >when the weather intereferes with a travellers plans, the travellers bears >the FULL financial burden of this event which is outside of the control of >both parties. the carrier accepts no responsibilty and therefore, somehow it >becomes FULLY the passengers problem. given that the carrier operates >in an environment where they know they will not always be able to deliver >the contracted service (and i am sure they know precisely how frequent this >will be) it seems they should share in the responsibility. >Interesting logic, but full of holes, I’m afraid. >First: The airline is always willing to provide the contracted service. >Your mistake is to assume that schedule or time information forms a part of >the contract, which it explicitly doesn’t.
this comes down to a feeling about the degree of resonsibility that a vendor should feel towards a customer. i think vendors should be looking to cater to and please the customer, rather than ennumerate conditions under which they will not accept or even share responsibilty for the customers satisfaction. its an old fashioned notion of business but i still like it. >Second: You are sure that the airlines know precisely how often weather >delays will occur. I’m not. Sure, they may know statistically that X% of >flights will be delayed, but that’s of no use when figuring out if flight >1234 is going to be able to run on time. And given that a thunderstorm in >Dallas may cause the cancellation of a flight between New York and DC (due >to the equipment still sitting in Dallas), this is really a non-trivial >problem.
hey…you know…they could increase the scheduled time between turn arounds…have bigger fleets etc…i know it increase the costs….and all that..but i figure that the 5-10% of the time that i get jammed up at an approximate cost of $200, factors in my travel expenses anyway. perhaps the more interesting question is why they feel that mechanical problems are within their control but weather isn’t…. i would prefer that they do everything the can to avert mechanical problems and that if they occur they say "we did everything possible therefore it isn’t our fault" the fact that they are willing to accept responsibility for mechanicals but not weather implies that they have some control over the mechanical failures. >Third: We all live in exactly the same world as the airlines. Weather >really shouldn’t surprise you! If you are trying to drive from (say) LA to >SF, you may get delayed by snow, duststorms, or rain… who would you >complain to then?
if my limo service didn’t show up to pick me up because their car was delayed in another city due to weather and the weather in my city was A-OK you can damn sure bet i wouldn’t contract with them again…i would ask them something like "why don’t you have contingency planning?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Malc.
Response:
>I know the airline I work for will not do any compensation for weather delays >or cancellations……however for Mechanicals we will.,….we can’t help what >mother nature decides to do
neither can the passenger…perhaps it would be more equitable to split the consequences of uncontrollable circumstances a bit more equally between the parties?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >year, was a leisure traveler with this airline. He began a new job a > >few months ago (and I followed him) that requires relatively frequent > >business travel. So he currently has in excess of 40,000 miles in his > >account, but he does not have elite status this year. He’s already > >earned it for next year though. So my point is that if he had been an > >elite FF, he may have received more attention. > This cannot be true. If he has achieved elite status for next year, he > automatically has it for the balance of this year too. > — > Steve >Thanks for clarifying, Steve. Do you know this to be the case on all >the majors? Obviously, it doesn’t matter for this particular situation, >but I’m just curious. I’ll ask him tomorrow if he has received >notification from this airline of his current elite status.
I know it’s true on Delta, Continental, American, and USAirways. I’m pretty sure it’s standard everywhere. Also, you snipped off part of the original post but I seem to recall that the airline in question was Delta. — Steve I Swear by my life and my love of it – that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. * John Galt (Ayn Rand)
Response:
> >I know the airline I work for will not do any compensation for weather delays >or cancellations……however for Mechanicals we will.,….we can’t help what >mother nature decides to do > neither can the passenger…perhaps it would be more equitable to split > the consequences > of uncontrollable circumstances a bit more equally between the parties?
I believe the point is that the airline doesn’t guarantee that you’ll be carried from point A to point B on the particular day, but rather than they’ll make every reasonable effort to do so. Accomodations, such as you suggest, would simply add to the cost of running the airline, and therefore it would be reasonable for the airline to pass that cost along to the consumer. Since the consumer is very interested in low fares, the airline accomodate that need by not offering the accomodations you suggest.
Response:
> >year, was a leisure traveler with this airline. He began a new job a >few months ago (and I followed him) that requires relatively frequent >business travel. So he currently has in excess of 40,000 miles in his >account, but he does not have elite status this year. He’s already >earned it for next year though. So my point is that if he had been an >elite FF, he may have received more attention. > This cannot be true. If he has achieved elite status for next year, he > automatically has it for the balance of this year too. > — > Steve
Thanks for clarifying, Steve. Do you know this to be the case on all the majors? Obviously, it doesn’t matter for this particular situation, but I’m just curious. I’ll ask him tomorrow if he has received notification from this airline of his current elite status.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >year, was a leisure traveler with this airline. He began a new job a > >few months ago (and I followed him) that requires relatively frequent > >business travel. So he currently has in excess of 40,000 miles in his > >account, but he does not have elite status this year. He’s already > >earned it for next year though. So my point is that if he had been an > >elite FF, he may have received more attention. > This cannot be true. If he has achieved elite status for next year, he > automatically has it for the balance of this year too. > — > Steve >Thanks for clarifying, Steve. Do you know this to be the case on all >the majors? Obviously, it doesn’t matter for this particular situation, >but I’m just curious. I’ll ask him tomorrow if he has received >notification from this airline of his current elite status.
I achhieved Premier Exec on UA part way through last year. It took 6-7 weeks to receive the new membership package in the mail but the additional benefits took effect immediately after reaching the 50k mi. mark. – - Steve Tatarunis http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/1243
Response:
>Unfortunately Continential wasn’t required to put them up/compensate >because of weather delays & it is unfortunate weather delays happen. >Myself, as most of us on here, have encountered weather delays and >unfortunately it is something we call have to contend with at one time or >another.
I did have NorthWest get me a discounted room when I got stuck in MSP overnight due to a weather delay. (This was an epic trip in both directions anyway … and NW was wonderful about each and every thing that happened.) Weather delays are just one of those things you get to live with. Only time I’ve ever gotten a free room because of a delay was once back in 197mumble when Air Force One was in the general area so we couldn’t take off, and then a storm moved in and our flight was cancelled. Got a free little room at a motel near the airport (the storm blew my door open, even though it was locked, about 3am. THAT will wake a female college student travelling alone in a millisecond) and a free "breakfast" the next morning. Travel is exciting. — Kim
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I know the airline I work for will not do any compensation for weather delays or cancellations……however for Mechanicals we will.,….we can’t help what mother nature decides to do
Response:
>I know the airline I work for will not do any compensation for weather delays >or cancellations……however for Mechanicals we will.,….we can’t help what >mother nature decides to do
It would be infinitely more helpful for us if you mentioned the name of this airline. 
Response:
>year, was a leisure traveler with this airline. He began a new job a >few months ago (and I followed him) that requires relatively frequent >business travel. So he currently has in excess of 40,000 miles in his >account, but he does not have elite status this year. He’s already >earned it for next year though. So my point is that if he had been an >elite FF, he may have received more attention.
This cannot be true. If he has achieved elite status for next year, he automatically has it for the balance of this year too. — Steve I Swear by my life and my love of it – that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. * John Galt (Ayn Rand)
Response:
I sincerely want to thank everyone who responded to this post. Hopefully it was useful to others as well. Just to address some of the issues that were brought up since my last response, he did call the airline’s corporate office numerous times during the 29 hour ordeal. And further, it was the return flight of his trip, although I think the person that mentioned this may have misinformation. You are correct in the part about a connecting flight, but I do not think that what you said applies to the first leg of a return flight. Others may want to comment on this. The point I was trying to make in my original post, and I apologize if I was unclear, is that in a very pleasant manner, he did all the "right" things to try to rectify the situation, but the airline just wouldn’t give. They literally left him and hundreds of others stranded with absolutely nothing. Further, he was genuinely concerned for the person with a broken leg from a skiing accident who was advised to have the fracture set in Houston rather than in Colorado, the person who was missing her sister’s funeral and the person who was missing a wedding. That’s the type of person he is. I learned just earlier tonight from him that he finally received a telephone call from the airline’s corporate office in response to the numerous long distance calls he made at his company’s expense to the corporate office from the COS airport on the two days he was stranded. They were very apologetic and offered him a $300 travel voucher. He accepted it. Unfortunately for him, if he were a more experienced traveler (and he participated in this newsgroup <g>) he would know that amount was way too little considering the two tickets cost a total of $1,154 and on top of that he paid $150 to get to DIA. Hopefully, if he’s ever unfortunate enough to have a similar situation recur, he’ll demand a higher amount. Thanks again, everyone.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m fairly familiar with the rules pertaining to what an airline has to > offer (meal vouchers, hotel stays, etc.) when a flight is cancelled due > to mechanical problems and no other flights are available that day. > I would like to know what applies in the following scenario which > relates to a weather delay. > A week and a half ago, my boss and his wife were scheduled on an 11:40 > a.m. non-stop departure from COS to IAH. At first the flight was > delayed for approximately 1 hour waiting for the incoming flight. Once > the flight was boarded, they sat at the gate for 2+ hours until the > pilot decided that the wings weren’t adequately de-iced and announced > that everyone could de-board. Approximately two hours after that, when > it was apparent that no flights would be leaving COS, the flight was > cancelled. No compensation was offered as they were told that weather > delays obviate the necessity of the airline providing it. My boss and > his wife chose to spend the night inside the airport so that they would > have the first opportunity to sign up on the waiting list at 5:30 a.m. > for the first flight out (7:00 a.m.) As this was during Spring Break, > and there were hundreds who weren’t able to get out the day before, they > didn’t clear that standby list nor the standby list for the 11:40 a.m. > flight. They then chose to take a cab ($150 at their own expense) to > DIA, in order to increase their chance of getting out that day due to > more flights available from DIA than from COS. The next flight out from > DIA was at 3:00 p.m. The Senior Gate Agent for that flight sympathized > with their plight (as well as one other couple) and went against airline > procedure and allowed them the 4 available seats. They were actually > far down on the waiting list and if airline procedure had been followed, > it was doubtful they would have gotten out that night as well. > Throughout the entire 29 hours from the time they arrived at COS until > they finally departed DIA the next afternoon, they were not offered a > single meal, voucher, compensation or anything. > As an aside, they were told that flights weren’t getting out of DIA on > that first day as well, but the airline brought in extra planes the next > morning to accommodate those who wouldn’t be able to clear standby the > following day. The airline did not bring in extra planes to COS, nor > did they offer to transport them to DIA at the airline’s expense. > What are the rules regarding a situation like this? Is the airline > required to offer any type of compensation?
First, it would important to know whether they were on their originating flight, or returning home. If this was their origination, then no compensation would have been offered. If this was a return or continuing leg, then generally at least a meal voucher should have been offered. Meal vouchers most of the time are capped at $7. Meaning, eat what you want, but we will only pick up the first $7 of the tab. If the delay was going to run into that long of a time… and the captain’s know this well in advance, as they get updates on weather over the entire route every 15 minutes… a room for the night at the carrier’s expense should have been offered… but again, only if this was a continuing or return leg. I have been baby sitter numerous times when weather has cancelled or delayed flights, or flights were diverted to my airport due to bad weather elsewhere… for those of you sending childred alone during the winter… it is always a good idea to keep them as far south as possible.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think they will tell you they don’t have to do anything if it is weather > related. > that is interesting, isn’t it. > the weather is uncontrollable, i agree with that.<snip> (about 1 year > ago) i read that DL was the only airline that treats weather delays and > mechanicials the same. > when i was last delayed by weather the redcoat told me that DL had no > repsonsibility to > me. when i told him that my understanding was that DL treated weather and > mechanical the same > way he said that was no longer the case, but he was not very interested in > being accomodating<snip> > Currently US Airways policy is to provide accommodations for weather and > mechanical delay. The new policy was implemented because they said the > cost associated with the accommodations vs the bad letters and > complaints did not warrant the suppossed savings. It also makes it > easier since all delays are now treated the same with no trying to > figure the reason for the delay.
Thanks for posting, tadjr. It’s useful to know how different airlines handle similar situations so when other aspects are equal (i.e., flight schedules and fares), this information can play a factor is one’s decision as to the best carrier for his needs. Unfortunately, those of us who live in major hub cities don’t have that opportunity as often as we’d like. But I will say that here in Houston, there’s far more competition now with Southwest’s increased service over the past few years and AirTran entering the Houston market last fall. I’m thankful I don’t live in CVG
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I have been trapped in weather situations frequently and found that while many airlines state that they don’t have to compensate you in some way, most will if you simply ask. I am not saying that the compensation is great–sometimes an overnight motel stay is in a pretty crummy one, but it is a free overnight stay. Other times, the overnight stay won’t be free, but they will give you vouchers for a discount hotel rate, etc. When this happens, I immediately go to a payphone right in the airport and call the 800 number for reservations to change my now cancelled flight to a *confirmed* reservation the next day. Believe it or not, it is usually possible. The airlines charge me nothing for the change because the change was due to their flight being cancelled due to weather. This way, I can avoid the standby line the next morning.
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<snip> > When this happens, I immediately go to a payphone right in the airport and call > the 800 number for reservations to change my now cancelled flight to a > *confirmed* reservation the next day. Believe it or not, it is usually > possible. The airlines charge me nothing for the change because the change was > due to their flight being cancelled due to weather. This way, I can avoid the > standby line the next morning.
This is a good idea and especially if it is past boarding time or after you were on the plane. Many times everyone stands in the same line waiting since there may only be a few agents to handle the situation (we are not allowed to staff for irregularities) so by the time you get to the front of the line all the available seats on the next flight may be gone. The agent at the counter may have some inside info on alternate flights that the rez agent doesnt know (ie the rez agent will probably try to rebook on the same carrier) but if they can offer something adequate, when the line clears you can always check at the counter for something better, but you know that you have a backup already.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I think they will tell you they don’t have to do anything if it is weather > related. > that is interesting, isn’t it. > the weather is uncontrollable, i agree with that.<snip> (about 1 year > ago) i read that DL was the only airline that treats weather delays and > mechanicials the same. > when i was last delayed by weather the redcoat told me that DL had no > repsonsibility to > me. when i told him that my understanding was that DL treated weather and > mechanical the same > way he said that was no longer the case, but he was not very interested in > being accomodating<snip>
Currently US Airways policy is to provide accommodations for weather and mechanical delay. The new policy was implemented because they said the cost associated with the accommodations vs the bad letters and complaints did not warrant the suppossed savings. It also makes it easier since all delays are now treated the same with no trying to figure the reason for the delay.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : I’m fairly familiar with the rules pertaining to what an airline has to > : offer (meal vouchers, hotel stays, etc.) when a flight is cancelled due > : to mechanical problems and no other flights are available that day. > : I would like to know what applies in the following scenario which > : relates to a weather delay. > <text cut about scenario> > Sheryl, > Unfortunately Continential wasn’t required to put them up/compensate > because of weather delays & it is unfortunate weather delays happen. > Myself, as most of us on here, have encountered weather delays and > unfortunately it is something we call have to contend with at one time or > another. > Even though not required to compensate or provide hotel/food/etc, I have > been accomodated by Delta on a few occasions (as recent as last month) > during delays/operational problems because of weather. I miss-connected > in SLC last month enroute to SFO and had to overnight there, it was my > birthday as well and I had plans to celebrate it with friends in the bay > area. > Since I misconnected because of a late inbound (because of weather) in > SLC, Delta put me up in a Holiday Inn at SLC where I got upgraded to a > suite (on the hotels behalf because it was by Bday). Delta also provided > a couple of prepaid phone cards and meal vouchers. They also did this for > the others that misconnected as well that particular night – but from a > ‘rule’ standpoint they were not required to do so. I thought it was a > good move on DL’s behalf as it kept many people happy (including me) and > the DL redcoats did an excellent job in assisting those of us who missed > connections. > You may want to have them write a letter to Continential customer service > explaining the circumstances and perhaps they may receive some vouchers or > something to help them offset their expenses. When an airline puts you up > because of weather problems, it’s usually for PR reasons and to keep > customers happy – which was a good move on DL’s behalf that particular > evening. > On other events in which Delta was not able to put me up, they have gone > out of their way to provide me with discounted hotel rooms. For example, > they have vouchers at DFW that are good for rooms at the DFW Hyatt for > like $39/night. In that case I was even very happy with them as I was > able to get a nice hotel at the airport at a deeply discounted rate. On a > different occassion because of a mechanical problem at DFW, they also put > me up in the same hotel (DFW Hyatt) at their expense. > If anything, I think airlines should follow that lead and try to provide > discounted accomodations for those stranded because of weather when > possible. I think whether the airline will assist really comes down to > what city you’re in, who you’re dealing with (the individual), and your > chances at being assisted go up if you are nice with them. > I wish you the best of luck and perhaps a nice letter explaining the > inconvience to Continential might be the best route for them. While not > obligated, I’d immagine they could issue a voucher or such to offset the > costs and to make for good public relations. It never hurts to ask, and > as you explained their delay was a long one for such a short trip and they > did have to spend a lot out of pocket to get upto DIA. If they don’t ask, > they’ll never know .. so a nice letter is what I’d suggest – the worst > that’ll happen is they’ll get an apology letter saying it was out of their > control, but I immagine they’d send perhaps a small travel voucher or some > perks (like coupons for extra FF miles on their next trip). > Best Regards, > Steve Richardson
I truly appreciate your extensive reply and I will cut and paste it into an e-mail to him (without your e-mail address). Actually, to tell you the truth, I was expecting that the airline (which, you correctly assumed their identity, but I saw no useful purpose in including it in my original post as I did want to pin a general problem to a particular airline) was not obligated to offer any compensation due to the facts as presented, but I just wanted to have the benefit of hearing from a frequent flyer such as yourself. I will add that my boss is the nicest person I’ve ever known, so you have my word that he was never rude throughout the whole ordeal. In fact, he even told me that the real reason he actually got on the flight out of Denver was for two reasons: (1) the Senior Gate Agent sympathized with their plight and (2) his negotiating skills (he’s a non-practicing lawyer). I personally think he was just being humble about the negotiating skills part. I really believe that the overriding second point was because he was so nice to the gate agent. One thing that you did not mention as a factor in what an airline will offer in an attempt to perform goodwill when they are not required to do anything, is the pax FF status. My boss, until the beginning of this year, was a leisure traveler with this airline. He began a new job a few months ago (and I followed him) that requires relatively frequent business travel. So he currently has in excess of 40,000 miles in his account, but he does not have elite status this year. He’s already earned it for next year though. So my point is that if he had been an elite FF, he may have received more attention. He has told me that he plans to write a letter to the airline. I will encourage him to do it sooner than later. Thanks, again, for your input.
Response:
: I’m fairly familiar with the rules pertaining to what an airline has to : offer (meal vouchers, hotel stays, etc.) when a flight is cancelled due : to mechanical problems and no other flights are available that day. : I would like to know what applies in the following scenario which : relates to a weather delay. <text cut about scenario> Sheryl, Unfortunately Continential wasn’t required to put them up/compensate because of weather delays & it is unfortunate weather delays happen. Myself, as most of us on here, have encountered weather delays and unfortunately it is something we call have to contend with at one time or another. Even though not required to compensate or provide hotel/food/etc, I have been accomodated by Delta on a few occasions (as recent as last month) during delays/operational problems because of weather. I miss-connected in SLC last month enroute to SFO and had to overnight there, it was my birthday as well and I had plans to celebrate it with friends in the bay area. Since I misconnected because of a late inbound (because of weather) in SLC, Delta put me up in a Holiday Inn at SLC where I got upgraded to a suite (on the hotels behalf because it was by Bday). Delta also provided a couple of prepaid phone cards and meal vouchers. They also did this for the others that misconnected as well that particular night – but from a ‘rule’ standpoint they were not required to do so. I thought it was a good move on DL’s behalf as it kept many people happy (including me) and the DL redcoats did an excellent job in assisting those of us who missed connections. You may want to have them write a letter to Continential customer service explaining the circumstances and perhaps they may receive some vouchers or something to help them offset their expenses. When an airline puts you up because of weather problems, it’s usually for PR reasons and to keep customers happy – which was a good move on DL’s behalf that particular evening. On other events in which Delta was not able to put me up, they have gone out of their way to provide me with discounted hotel rooms. For example, they have vouchers at DFW that are good for rooms at the DFW Hyatt for like $39/night. In that case I was even very happy with them as I was able to get a nice hotel at the airport at a deeply discounted rate. On a different occassion because of a mechanical problem at DFW, they also put me up in the same hotel (DFW Hyatt) at their expense. If anything, I think airlines should follow that lead and try to provide discounted accomodations for those stranded because of weather when possible. I think whether the airline will assist really comes down to what city you’re in, who you’re dealing with (the individual), and your chances at being assisted go up if you are nice with them. I wish you the best of luck and perhaps a nice letter explaining the inconvience to Continential might be the best route for them. While not obligated, I’d immagine they could issue a voucher or such to offset the costs and to make for good public relations. It never hurts to ask, and as you explained their delay was a long one for such a short trip and they did have to spend a lot out of pocket to get upto DIA. If they don’t ask, they’ll never know .. so a nice letter is what I’d suggest – the worst that’ll happen is they’ll get an apology letter saying it was out of their control, but I immagine they’d send perhaps a small travel voucher or some perks (like coupons for extra FF miles on their next trip). Best Regards, Steve Richardson
Response:
I’m fairly familiar with the rules pertaining to what an airline has to offer (meal vouchers, hotel stays, etc.) when a flight is cancelled due to mechanical problems and no other flights are available that day. I would like to know what applies in the following scenario which relates to a weather delay. A week and a half ago, my boss and his wife were scheduled on an 11:40 a.m. non-stop departure from COS to IAH. At first the flight was delayed for approximately 1 hour waiting for the incoming flight. Once the flight was boarded, they sat at the gate for 2+ hours until the pilot decided that the wings weren’t adequately de-iced and announced that everyone could de-board. Approximately two hours after that, when it was apparent that no flights would be leaving COS, the flight was cancelled. No compensation was offered as they were told that weather delays obviate the necessity of the airline providing it. My boss and his wife chose to spend the night inside the airport so that they would have the first opportunity to sign up on the waiting list at 5:30 a.m. for the first flight out (7:00 a.m.) As this was during Spring Break, and there were hundreds who weren’t able to get out the day before, they didn’t clear that standby list nor the standby list for the 11:40 a.m. flight. They then chose to take a cab ($150 at their own expense) to DIA, in order to increase their chance of getting out that day due to more flights available from DIA than from COS. The next flight out from DIA was at 3:00 p.m. The Senior Gate Agent for that flight sympathized with their plight (as well as one other couple) and went against airline procedure and allowed them the 4 available seats. They were actually far down on the waiting list and if airline procedure had been followed, it was doubtful they would have gotten out that night as well. Throughout the entire 29 hours from the time they arrived at COS until they finally departed DIA the next afternoon, they were not offered a single meal, voucher, compensation or anything. As an aside, they were told that flights weren’t getting out of DIA on that first day as well, but the airline brought in extra planes the next morning to accommodate those who wouldn’t be able to clear standby the following day. The airline did not bring in extra planes to COS, nor did they offer to transport them to DIA at the airline’s expense. What are the rules regarding a situation like this? Is the airline required to offer any type of compensation?
Response:
I think they will tell you they don’t have to do anything if it is weather related. that is interesting, isn’t it. the weather is uncontrollable, i agree with that. when the weather intereferes with a travellers plans, the travellers bears the FULL financial burden of this event which is outside of the control of both parties. the carrier accepts no responsibilty and therefore, somehow it becomes FULLY the passengers problem. given that the carrier operates in an environment where they know they will not always be able to deliver the contracted service (and i am sure they know precisely how frequent this will be) it seems they should share in the responsibility. PS- does anyone know what the official DL policy on this is? once upon a time (about 1 year ago) i read that DL was the only airline that treats weather delays and mechanicials the same. when i was last delayed by weather the redcoat told me that DL had no repsonsibility to me. when i told him that my understanding was that DL treated weather and mechanical the same way he said that was no longer the case, but he was not very interested in being accomodating – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’m fairly familiar with the rules pertaining to what an airline has to >offer (meal vouchers, hotel stays, etc.) when a flight is cancelled due >to mechanical problems and no other flights are available that day. >I would like to know what applies in the following scenario which >relates to a weather delay. >A week and a half ago, my boss and his wife were scheduled on an 11:40 >a.m. non-stop departure from COS to IAH. At first the flight was >delayed for approximately 1 hour waiting for the incoming flight. Once >the flight was boarded, they sat at the gate for 2+ hours until the >pilot decided that the wings weren’t adequately de-iced and announced >that everyone could de-board. Approximately two hours after that, when >it was apparent that no flights would be leaving COS, the flight was >cancelled. No compensation was offered as they were told that weather >delays obviate the necessity of the airline providing it. My boss and >his wife chose to spend the night inside the airport so that they would >have the first opportunity to sign up on the waiting list at 5:30 a.m. >for the first flight out (7:00 a.m.) As this was during Spring Break, >and there were hundreds who weren’t able to get out the day before, they >didn’t clear that standby list nor the standby list for the 11:40 a.m. >flight. They then chose to take a cab ($150 at their own expense) to >DIA, in order to increase their chance of getting out that day due to >more flights available from DIA than from COS. The next flight out from >DIA was at 3:00 p.m. The Senior Gate Agent for that flight sympathized >with their plight (as well as one other couple) and went against airline >procedure and allowed them the 4 available seats. They were actually >far down on the waiting list and if airline procedure had been followed, >it was doubtful they would have gotten out that night as well. >Throughout the entire 29 hours from the time they arrived at COS until >they finally departed DIA the next afternoon, they were not offered a >single meal, voucher, compensation or anything. >As an aside, they were told that flights weren’t getting out of DIA on >that first day as well, but the airline brought in extra planes the next >morning to accommodate those who wouldn’t be able to clear standby the >following day. The airline did not bring in extra planes to COS, nor >did they offer to transport them to DIA at the airline’s expense. >What are the rules regarding a situation like this? Is the airline >required to offer any type of compensation?