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response from OLDmobile
Question:
:>>The Ciera is a 12-year-old design that deserves a quick death. The Cutlass :>>Supreme, though, is an outstanding car. I like the interior layout, and the :>>handling is superb for it’s size (just wish I had the 4-cam 3.4L). It is one :>>of the few GM cars I have driven that doesn’t have a mushy ride. The Fiero is :>>the only other one I have encountered so far (no experience with Corvettes). : > I had a Supreme (4 door) for a week of driving through the : > Rockies. Not only was it a letdown, it was damn near bad enough to be : > unsafe. The handling WAS mushy (do you have the FE3 package – rentals : > don’t), the turning circle is still poor, the interior was pathetic in : > design and execution, and the brakes were shot with 12,000 kms on the : > odometer. The brakes may be excepted here as this was a rental from : > Vancouver, and not many people have enough sense to use 2nd on long : > decents in slow areas, or shut off overdrive for faster decents. : I have a 1990 Old Cutlass Supreme International which has the FE3 : suspension package included. This handling package made the difference : for me. I drove a regular Cutlass and I didn’t like it at all, but : the sales-droid was quick to mention the FE3 package (I’m not sure if : Chevy, Pontiac and Buick have it, but they didn’t mention it). It was : about the same price as the Camry that I was comparing it too (the model : with the ground effects), but the Cutlass handled much better, had more : room (interior and trunk) and it was cheaper by about $1K. This is my : SO’s car and she always wanted Japanese cars, but this one sold her that : American cars have improved. We traded her 1987 Camry LX in for this car. FYI: Ours is an 89 International with the FE3 & 16" wheels. I did drive a model with 15" wheels and it wasn’t too bad. Definitely no match for ours, though. — Sverdrup Technology, Inc. Model Based Vision Laboratory 4200 Colonel Glenn Highway, Suite 500 Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio Beavercreek, Ohio 45431 Unix/Network Administration Proud owner of a 1987 VW Cabriolet Wolfsburg Edition with a hip-hop stereo. Bill Clinton: The Worst foreign policy in the last 50 years!
Response:
> I had a Supreme (4 door) for a week of driving through the > Rockies. Not only was it a letdown, it was damn near bad enough to be > unsafe. The handling WAS mushy (do you have the FE3 package – rentals > don’t), the turning circle is still poor, the interior was pathetic in > design and execution, and the brakes were shot with 12,000 kms on the > odometer. The brakes may be excepted here as this was a rental from > Vancouver, and not many people have enough sense to use 2nd on long > decents in slow areas, or shut off overdrive for faster decents.
I have a 1990 Old Cutlass Supreme International which has the FE3 suspension package included. This handling package made the difference for me. I drove a regular Cutlass and I didn’t like it at all, but the sales-droid was quick to mention the FE3 package (I’m not sure if Chevy, Pontiac and Buick have it, but they didn’t mention it). It was about the same price as the Camry that I was comparing it too (the model with the ground effects), but the Cutlass handled much better, had more room (interior and trunk) and it was cheaper by about $1K. This is my SO’s car and she always wanted Japanese cars, but this one sold her that American cars have improved. We traded her 1987 Camry LX in for this car. _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Response:
D> : The Olds I rent, usually a Ciera (mid-size – HAH) are the absolute worst D> : examples of "domestic" car design I ever encounter. Tacky trim, plastichrome D> : knobs, glare off of everything, etc. Looks like it is a throwback to the D> : land yachts of the the Brady Bunch era. D> : But I could tolerate that if they would just make a car that could turn D> : into a parking space and not have a 90 ft turning radius. I have to plot D> : turning into spaces, because this car cannot do it like my cars which are D> : larger. Next thing I see at full lock is the middle of the adjacent car D> : coming up in front of this abomination of a car. D> : If that is Olds and their front wheel drive, they can go out of business. D> : I don’t remember having this problem with the real Cutlasses of the 60’s D> : and ’70s. And I don’t seem to have the same tacky or handling problems D> : with the cousins in the other lines. D> The Ciera is a 12-year-old design that deserves a quick death. The Cutlass D> Supreme, though, is an outstanding car. I like the interior layout, and the D> handling is superb for it’s size (just wish I had the 4-cam 3.4L). It is one D> of the few GM cars I have driven that doesn’t have a mushy ride. The Fiero is D> the only other one I have encountered so far (no experience with Corvettes). I had a Supreme (4 door) for a week of driving through the Rockies. Not only was it a letdown, it was damn near bad enough to be unsafe. The handling WAS mushy (do you have the FE3 package – rentals don’t), the turning circle is still poor, the interior was pathetic in design and execution, and the brakes were shot with 12,000 kms on the odometer. The brakes may be excepted here as this was a rental from Vancouver, and not many people have enough sense to use 2nd on long decents in slow areas, or shut off overdrive for faster decents. Of course, I was comparing it with my Prelude, and this got me in trouble once or twice, as this car simply could not do the same things the Prelude could. I finally learned to take it much slower and leave even more room than usual. All in all, not my favourite car for crossing a place as beautiful as the Canadian Rockies, with great roads. It was a real letdown as the exterior styling (particularly at the time was a great step forward), and I was actually looking forward to giving it a try. Now this morning I saw an Aurora on the road – I wonder if I can rent this for my next trip! Very nice, inside and out, but I’ll reserve final judgement until I can drive it (yeah, like I’ll get the chance) or some of this filters down to the lesser cars. Jeff Goss P.S. I really wanted a 240 for that drive, but the cost (especially dropoff 1500 km away was a real killer).
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> recently i wrote to OLDmobile concerning their current and future > product plans and made comments to the effect that OLDmobile is out of > touch with it’s customers for a variety of reasons. i also noted that > they are not putting the name OLDmobile on the upcoming Aurora. Seems > <snip> > comments? > I agree Olds WAS out of touch with their clients, but mostly because > they were confused as to what they were supposed to be building. > In many peoples minds they are the "Rocket Division", in others, > they build cars to compete with Buick for the 60+ group. They > built cars during the 80’s to meet this confused opinion, and > came out with the Silouette to further confuse everyone. > Regardless of what Consumer Reports might say, Olds is making > damn good cars. Not terribly exciting, and when your friends > are talking about the VTEC engine in their ‘94 Accord, you’ll > feel a little uncomfortable talking about that plain-jane 3100 > in your cutlass Ciera.. > But their one-price shopping and the good marketplace has given them > a sharp rise in sales; above the market recovery, but I don’t have > the specific figures. > Aurora, as I figure, will be a big hit. Then, Olds should probably > begin to associate their name with the car, and then in 1997 when > Olds revamps their WHOLE LINE (as I understand it), people will > go "oh, Oldsmobile, the Aurora people", and they should have > a good recovery going on.
my bet is that they merge with saturn or change their name to aurora….OLDmobile just is not a good name for a car company….they have pretty much destroyed what value used to be in the name.
Response:
>> recently i wrote to OLDmobile concerning their current and future > product plans and made comments to the effect that OLDmobile is out of > touch with it’s customers for a variety of reasons. i also noted that >Regardless of what Consumer Reports might say, Olds is making >damn good cars. Not terribly exciting, and when your friends >They, IMHO, make some of the best, most reliable cars on the market. >I only hope they can recover their past glories.
The Olds I rent, usually a Ciera (mid-size – HAH) are the absolute worst examples of "domestic" car design I ever encounter. Tacky trim, plastichrome knobs, glare off of everything, etc. Looks like it is a throwback to the land yachts of the the Brady Bunch era. But I could tolerate that if they would just make a car that could turn into a parking space and not have a 90 ft turning radius. I have to plot turning into spaces, because this car cannot do it like my cars which are larger. Next thing I see at full lock is the middle of the adjacent car coming up in front of this abomination of a car. If that is Olds and their front wheel drive, they can go out of business. I don’t remember having this problem with the real Cutlasses of the 60’s and ’70s. And I don’t seem to have the same tacky or handling problems with the cousins in the other lines. K. — Kershner Wyatt (803) 939-7787, VP 633-7787 AT&T Global Information Solutions Fax: (803) 939-7745 My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of AT&T.
Response:
: The Olds I rent, usually a Ciera (mid-size – HAH) are the absolute worst : examples of "domestic" car design I ever encounter. Tacky trim, plastichrome : knobs, glare off of everything, etc. Looks like it is a throwback to the : land yachts of the the Brady Bunch era. : But I could tolerate that if they would just make a car that could turn : into a parking space and not have a 90 ft turning radius. I have to plot : turning into spaces, because this car cannot do it like my cars which are : larger. Next thing I see at full lock is the middle of the adjacent car : coming up in front of this abomination of a car. : If that is Olds and their front wheel drive, they can go out of business. : I don’t remember having this problem with the real Cutlasses of the 60’s : and ’70s. And I don’t seem to have the same tacky or handling problems : with the cousins in the other lines. The Ciera is a 12-year-old design that deserves a quick death. The Cutlass Supreme, though, is an outstanding car. I like the interior layout, and the handling is superb for it’s size (just wish I had the 4-cam 3.4L). It is one of the few GM cars I have driven that doesn’t have a mushy ride. The Fiero is the only other one I have encountered so far (no experience with Corvettes). — Sverdrup Technology, Inc. Model Based Vision Laboratory 4200 Colonel Glenn Highway, Suite 500 Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio Beavercreek, Ohio 45431 Unix/Network Administration Proud owner of a 1987 VW Cabriolet Wolfsburg Edition with a hip-hop stereo. Bill Clinton: The Worst foreign policy in the last 50 years!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: The Olds I rent, usually a Ciera (mid-size – HAH) are the absolute worst >: examples of "domestic" car design I ever encounter. Tacky trim, plastichrome >: knobs, glare off of everything, etc. Looks like it is a throwback to the >: land yachts of the the Brady Bunch era. >: But I could tolerate that if they would just make a car that could turn >: into a parking space and not have a 90 ft turning radius. I have to plot >: turning into spaces, because this car cannot do it like my cars which are >: larger. Next thing I see at full lock is the middle of the adjacent car >: coming up in front of this abomination of a car. >: If that is Olds and their front wheel drive, they can go out of business. >: I don’t remember having this problem with the real Cutlasses of the 60’s >: and ’70s. And I don’t seem to have the same tacky or handling problems >: with the cousins in the other lines. >The Ciera is a 12-year-old design that deserves a quick death. The Cutlass >Supreme, though, is an outstanding car. I like the interior layout, and the >handling is superb for it’s size (just wish I had the 4-cam 3.4L). It is one >of the few GM cars I have driven that doesn’t have a mushy ride. The Fiero is >the only other one I have encountered so far (no experience with Corvettes).
You may not like the Ciera, but people still want them and keep on buying them. If this were not the case, GM would have gotten rid of them when the new Supreme came out several years ago. As it is, they are very dependable cars that can last a long time. I know. My parents just got rid of their old one. The car had 180k on it and the transmission was starting to slip. It had had no major maintenance and got good mileage (diesel). Also, it was replaced with another one just like it except the new one is gas. >– >Sverdrup Technology, Inc. Model Based Vision Laboratory >4200 Colonel Glenn Highway, Suite 500 Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio >Beavercreek, Ohio 45431 Unix/Network Administration > Proud owner of a 1987 VW Cabriolet Wolfsburg Edition with a hip-hop stereo. > Bill Clinton: The Worst foreign policy in the last 50 years!
– (515)-294-6286 Oskee-wow-wow Iowa State University 109 Davidson Hall
Response:
> recently i wrote to OLDmobile concerning their current and future > product plans and made comments to the effect that OLDmobile is out of > touch with it’s customers for a variety of reasons. i also noted that > they are not putting the name OLDmobile on the upcoming Aurora. Seems
<snip> > Sincerely, > W.K. Ramsey" > comments?
I agree Olds WAS out of touch with their clients, but mostly because they were confused as to what they were supposed to be building. In many peoples minds they are the "Rocket Division", in others, they build cars to compete with Buick for the 60+ group. They built cars during the 80’s to meet this confused opinion, and came out with the Silouette to further confuse everyone. Regardless of what Consumer Reports might say, Olds is making damn good cars. Not terribly exciting, and when your friends are talking about the VTEC engine in their ‘94 Accord, you’ll feel a little uncomfortable talking about that plain-jane 3100 in your cutlass Ciera.. But their one-price shopping and the good marketplace has given them a sharp rise in sales; above the market recovery, but I don’t have the specific figures. Aurora, as I figure, will be a big hit. Then, Olds should probably begin to associate their name with the car, and then in 1997 when Olds revamps their WHOLE LINE (as I understand it), people will go "oh, Oldsmobile, the Aurora people", and they should have a good recovery going on. They, IMHO, make some of the best, most reliable cars on the market. I only hope they can recover their past glories. jon
Response:
>recently i wrote to OLDmobile concerning their current and future >product plans and made comments to the effect that OLDmobile is out of >touch with it’s customers for a variety of reasons. i also noted that >they are not putting the name OLDmobile on the upcoming Aurora. Seems >customer focus groups found out that people were much more interested >in buying it if they didn’t know it was an OLDmobile. in the groups >some were told it was a lexus aurora and others oldsmobile etc. >anyways, here is their general marketing managers response. based on >it i don’t see much hope for the future of OLDmobile.
[deleted letter] >comments?
Well I think they are right. If I had $30,000 to go out and spend on a car, we’re obviously talking status symbol here. If I just wanted transportation, I’d buy a small little 4 door. Now if I want a status symbol, and I got lot’s of cash. Am I going to buy a Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, or an OLDmobile? Chances are probably pretty good I wouldn’t buy an OLDmobile. Ohwell, I think most of GM has lost touch with it’s market. They have too many divisions, and most of them make the same cars. I heard someone once say, and have to agree, that GM should eliminate all divisions except GMC and Saturn. :) — Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions] Iowa State University ICSS Resource Facility by day —- Gopher for Governor —-
Response:
recently i wrote to OLDmobile concerning their current and future product plans and made comments to the effect that OLDmobile is out of touch with it’s customers for a variety of reasons. i also noted that they are not putting the name OLDmobile on the upcoming Aurora. Seems customer focus groups found out that people were much more interested in buying it if they didn’t know it was an OLDmobile. in the groups some were told it was a lexus aurora and others oldsmobile etc. anyways, here is their general marketing managers response. based on it i don’t see much hope for the future of OLDmobile. "Thanks for your recent letter and thoughts about Oldsmobile. As you undoubtedly recognize, the automitive category represents a highly complex challenge. We particiapte in a multiplicity of studies to assist the team in making good short and long range decisions. While we do not discuss our long range plans, we are confident that Oldsmobile will compete very aggressively in the marketplace. We appreciate your taking time to write. Sincerely, W.K. Ramsey" comments?