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Merged Hawaiian airline to buy 717s
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Why do you think that the 318s would not be good performers for NW? NW > > already > > operates the 319 and 320, and has orders for 330s(correct if wrong). The > > 318 would > > probably be the right way to go for the airline. > > Are there any negative stats about 318 that I don’t know of? > The A318 is going to be certified with the CFM engine first since the > PW6000 has an ugly fuel consumption problem. Whether this causes an > engine-commanality problem for NW may be an issue. Not sure what type > of engine NW uses on most of their planes right now. > Shoudln’t and can only be better. IAE2500 is the only other 320 option, > and not an option on the 318 > From a fleet commonality standpoint though, it would make more sense than > to introduce the 717. They would have the advantage of minimal pilot > training to be certified on other A320 family and A330 aircraft. > True, but training from DC-9 to 717 should be even more minimal
Yes, but the pilots would still have to undergo relatively major retraining in order the fly the A320 family planes. So you’d have a pool of 717-only pilots as well as A320-only pilots. Scotty — Academic Services, CCS (519) 824-4120 x2556 University of Guelph "If it’s not Scottish it’s CRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPP!"
Response:
> Are there any negative stats about 318 that I don’t know of?
The 318 is heavier and less efficient for short hauls than the 717, but has longer range. But having wider fuselage, its cargo capacity is probably much better than the 717’s.
Response:
> New Airline Resulting From Merger of Aloha, Hawaiian Airlines > Plans to Buy Boeing 717s
Aloha was the only cargo airline in Hawaii, using several 737-200QCs at night to haul things like bread and other bulky freight between the islands. All the bread in Hawaii is baked on Oahu, and Aloha was the means by which fresh bread was delivered each day to the other islands. The 717 is not only a smaller airplane, but it can accomodate belly freight only. So it will be interesting to see what the merged airline does to accomodate the bulk air cargo needs in Hawaii. At the time we filmed at Aloha, which was about a year and a half ago, Aloha’s cargo operation was a pretty good source of revenue. C. Marin Faure Seattle
Response:
> Why do you think that the 318s would not be good performers for NW? NW already > operates the 319 and 320, and has orders for 330s(correct if wrong). The 318 would > probably be the right way to go for the airline. > Are there any negative stats about 318 that I don’t know of?
The A318 is going to be certified with the CFM engine first since the PW6000 has an ugly fuel consumption problem. Whether this causes an engine-commanality problem for NW may be an issue. Not sure what type of engine NW uses on most of their planes right now. The A318 has a cargo advantage over the 717 apparently, but is not as economical on very high-frequency short-hop flights in a strictly passenger-hauling role. From a fleet commonality standpoint though, it would make more sense than to introduce the 717. They would have the advantage of minimal pilot training to be certified on other A320 family and A330 aircraft. Scotty — Academic Services, CCS (519) 824-4120 x2556 University of Guelph "If it’s not Scottish it’s CRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPP!"
Response:
> > Why do you think that the 318s would not be good performers for NW? NW > already > operates the 319 and 320, and has orders for 330s(correct if wrong). The > 318 would > probably be the right way to go for the airline. > Are there any negative stats about 318 that I don’t know of? > The A318 is going to be certified with the CFM engine first since the > PW6000 has an ugly fuel consumption problem. Whether this causes an > engine-commanality problem for NW may be an issue. Not sure what type > of engine NW uses on most of their planes right now.
Shoudln’t and can only be better. IAE2500 is the only other 320 option, and not an option on the 318 > From a fleet commonality standpoint though, it would make more sense than > to introduce the 717. They would have the advantage of minimal pilot > training to be certified on other A320 family and A330 aircraft.
True, but training from DC-9 to 717 should be even more minimal
Response:
Why do you think that the 318s would not be good performers for NW? NW already operates the 319 and 320, and has orders for 330s(correct if wrong). The 318 would probably be the right way to go for the airline. Are there any negative stats about 318 that I don’t know of? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > They could probably pick some ex- US and ex-Midway ones pretty cheap, > I suspect. I think I read that US’s are parked in the desert. > I suspect that once the industry is out of it’s current dumper, NWA > might be in the market for some 717’s to replace it’s DC-9’s. The > 318’s probably are not going to be good performers for NW’s feeder > flights, and NWA has always turned up it’s nose at the 737. >> Probably a quick and easy market for Boeing to sell some of those TWA >> 717’s they’re taking back! >Have all of AA’s 717s been built yet ? >If Hawaian is buying "used" planes, it won’t really add to Boeing’s order book >for future 717 production. >But it will add to the momentum for that plane, especially since they have >have been scooped up so quickly. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 717 built up >some momentum over time. >One issue that AA may have erred in ditching ithe 717s: If AA needed to grow >its fleet of 100 seat aircraft, could it buy some additional F100 planes ? If >not, then AA’s fleet of 100 seat planes is fixed and if the routes where the >plane is best suited start to grow, then AA will be stuck with too few such >planes and the inaility to grow that fleet. Had it switched to the 717, then >AA would have been able to grow that fleet if needed.
Response:
>> So we’ve got Mapleflot, now if Aloha and Hawaiian merge what are we > going to call them? Aloflot? Polyflot? > What about QF, did we ever settle on a name? Aussieflot? No, Qantaflot > is better to keep the confusing spelling to catch out the amateurs 
> –==++AJC++==– >Ozflot ? >In their off hours they could skywrite "Surrender Dorothy" – or doesn’t >"The Wizard of Oz" get repeat playings on NL TV?
Not too often thankfully –==++AJC++==–
Response:
New Airline Resulting From Merger of Aloha, Hawaiian Airlines Plans to Buy Boeing 717s HONOLULU (AP) — The new airline resulting from the planned merger of Aloha and Hawaiian Airlines will likely convert its entire interisland fleet to Boeing (NYSE:BA – news) 717s, the executive leading the merger says. If the deal goes through, it would provide a much-needed boost for Boeing’s slow-selling 100-passenger jet. Greg Brenneman, the executive who will run the merged airline, also told The Honolulu Advertiser on Monday that as part of the new company’s first-year growth plan, he wants to order as many as 12 more long-haul planes such as Boeing 757s or Boeing 767s. That would give the carrier the ability to offer twice as many long-distance flights within four years. Hawaiian currently is using 12 717s in its fleet of 32 planes and has plans to replace its remaining four DC-9-50s with 717s. Aloha operates 18 older Boeing 737-200s and five newer 737-500s. It was not immediately clear whether the new airline would acquire 23 717s to replace those planes or would consolidate routes. Its pilots and mechanics would receive training by the company on the new equipment, Brenneman said. He told the newspaper he is working with Boeing Co. officials to reduce the lease rates on planes that have been ordered by the two carriers, which will mean “millions and millions of dollars of lease savings” to the airline. Boeing’s offer is contingent on the merger going through, he said. The proposed merger is subject to federal and state regulatory approval. Several lawsuits seeking to block the merger are pending in state court. Boeing inherited the design for the twin-engine 717, originally part of McDonnell Douglas’ MD-90 series, when it bought McDonnell Douglas in 1997. Boeing had considered dropping the 717, but in December the company’s board of directors decided simply to scale back production of the money-losing plane. Last week, AMR Corp. [NYSE:AAR - news], American Airlines’ parent company, said it would return as many as 30 Boeing 717s that had been part of the TWA fleet it acquired in its merger last year. American does not fly 717s, and said it did not make sense to keep the planes when it flies similar-sized Fokker 100s. At the time, Boeing spokesman Peter Conte said AMR’s decision was about business, and was not a reflection on the 717 as an airplane. Conte also said Boeing was confident it would be able to place the airplanes with new or existing customers. The 717 is designed for short-haul routes with numerous stops — the type of flying Hawaiian and Aloha do between island airports. Hawaiian began flying the jet last year.
Response:
> Probably a quick and easy market for Boeing to sell some of those TWA > 717’s they’re taking back!
Have all of AA’s 717s been built yet ? If Hawaian is buying "used" planes, it won’t really add to Boeing’s order book for future 717 production. But it will add to the momentum for that plane, especially since they have have been scooped up so quickly. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 717 built up some momentum over time. One issue that AA may have erred in ditching ithe 717s: If AA needed to grow its fleet of 100 seat aircraft, could it buy some additional F100 planes ? If not, then AA’s fleet of 100 seat planes is fixed and if the routes where the plane is best suited start to grow, then AA will be stuck with too few such planes and the inaility to grow that fleet. Had it switched to the 717, then AA would have been able to grow that fleet if needed.
Response:
So we’ve got Mapleflot, now if Aloha and Hawaiian merge what are we going to call them? Aloflot? Polyflot? What about QF, did we ever settle on a name? Aussieflot? No, Qantaflot is better to keep the confusing spelling to catch out the amateurs –==++AJC++==–
Response:
> So we’ve got Mapleflot, now if Aloha and Hawaiian merge what are we > going to call them? Aloflot? Polyflot? > What about QF, did we ever settle on a name? Aussieflot? No, Qantaflot > is better to keep the confusing spelling to catch out the amateurs > –==++AJC++==–
Ozflot ? In their off hours they could skywrite "Surrender Dorothy" – or doesn’t "The Wizard of Oz" get repeat playings on NL TV?