Business History Books » Business Plans » Gate Check-in On Its Way Out
Gate Check-in On Its Way Out
Question:
> BUT… so is a boarding pass, at least on Northwest and Delta. The > elimination of gate checkin is supposed to push people to technologies > like Internet checkin — and that means that if you know what the > ’special search’ marking is for your airline, you can just re-edit the > HTML to eliminate it. (Or indeed, change the name.)
Air Canada has a special "check in" counter for transborder flights. If you use the self-check-in kiosks, you still have to go to that special check-in counter where a real human (well, as real as Air Canada can approach being human 
will check you out (and check that you have necessary papers) before letting you proceed to the US immigration/customs area for preclearance. Perhaps something similar would be done for regular check-in: you’d still have to use some express-lane to have your self-check-in validated.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Interesting – the plan has some pros as noted by many of those who > replied already. But the big problem for me (government flyer) is that > while this system works faster for those with E-tickets, it is usually > a very long wait with a paper ticket. (They have fewer check-in > locations for those of us with paper tickets.) From what I read in the > article, it doesn’t sound like a paper ticket will be treated any > differently – we know the airlines want to get rid of them. However, > because I may need to change a flight or airline at the last minute, a > paper ticket is a must to avoid waiting in more than one line, i.e. > the original carrier and then the new one. When are the airlines going > to make E-tickets a universal system? When they do, it will help a lot > of people like me. Laura > [snip] > If you have a paper ticket that isn’t fully refundable and therefore > fully transferable, you’ll need to get in both lines anyway to have > it endorsed over (which many airlines are want to do). If it is > fully refundable, don’t bother standing in the original line, just > go to the new airline, or call your travel agent, or call the airline.
That isn’t the problem. Government fares are fully refundable and changeable – so changing is easy. The problem is that with the phase out in gate check-in, I will have to wait in the long line instead of just going to the gate to change. Sometimes I’ve been able to make a flight leaving in half an hour instead of having to wait for my ticketed flight that leaves two hours later. I know, it seems trivial, but if you fly a lot on business, it is nice to get home faster. The new method will take a lot longer and making that quick change won’t be possible. Laura
Response:
> > Why can’t that "coding" be put on the TICKET instead of the boarding > pass? Then you can still eliminate the need for the gate search, but > you could still get your boarding pass at the gate > When you buy your ticket, no airline employees sees you. When you check in, > they can tell if you look arab, see if you are carrying some islamic > books/magazines and if so, flag your boarding pass to get the full "VIP" > treatment. You couldn’t do that for web-purchased tickets.
Again, from the article: "The process has been working smoothly in part because passengers can get boarding passes from self-service check-in machines instead of at ticket counters. And the airlines and airports testing the system have plenty of check-in capacity in the lobby. The airlines involved in the testing also are adding capacity. At Los Angeles, American plans to more than double its 12 self-service machines by Thanksgiving Day. Northwest has 94 machines in place in Detroit. Its passengers — and those on some other airlines — also can get boarding passes via the Internet." How are those machines or "passes issued via the Internet" going to tell what nationality you are or what reading material you have? I still see no difference here in regards to a boarding pass vs. a ticket having a code on it. John
Response:
> Interesting – the plan has some pros as noted by many of those who > replied already. But the big problem for me (government flyer) is that > while this system works faster for those with E-tickets, it is usually > a very long wait with a paper ticket. (They have fewer check-in > locations for those of us with paper tickets.) From what I read in the > article, it doesn’t sound like a paper ticket will be treated any > differently – we know the airlines want to get rid of them. However, > because I may need to change a flight or airline at the last minute, a > paper ticket is a must to avoid waiting in more than one line, i.e. > the original carrier and then the new one. When are the airlines going > to make E-tickets a universal system? When they do, it will help a lot > of people like me. Laura
[snip] If you have a paper ticket that isn’t fully refundable and therefore fully transferable, you’ll need to get in both lines anyway to have it endorsed over (which many airlines are want to do). If it is fully refundable, don’t bother standing in the original line, just go to the new airline, or call your travel agent, or call the airline.
Response:
> > How do you do that with an E-ticket? The passenger doesn’t > necessarily have to bring any paper to the airport… > When I get an e-ticket, I get a confirmation of the ticketing that says > it can be used to get through security. So, you can waive the computer > printout and get through. OF course it is in html and can be simply > changed to match any information (name, date, time) required.
BUT… so is a boarding pass, at least on Northwest and Delta. The elimination of gate checkin is supposed to push people to technologies like Internet checkin — and that means that if you know what the ’special search’ marking is for your airline, you can just re-edit the HTML to eliminate it. (Or indeed, change the name.) Now, maybe the TSA are wise to this and are actually reading Internet boarding passes with a barcode reader or equivalent — can anyone tell me? But if they’re just looking at the boarding pass and saying ‘OK Mr Jones, you’re clear’ then we’re back where we started.
Response:
Whilst undoubtedly under the effects of alcohol, >: Why can’t that "coding" be put on the TICKET instead of the boarding >: pass? >How do you do that with an E-ticket? The passenger doesn’t >necessarily have to bring any paper to the airport…
And what’s more, how can a ticket issued in, say, Australia to an Indonesian national for domestic travel in the United States carry such coding? ===== Dave There are 10 types of people – those who understand binary and those who don’t.
Response:
> Why can’t that "coding" be put on the TICKET instead of the boarding > pass? Then you can still eliminate the need for the gate search, but > you could still get your boarding pass at the gate
When you buy your ticket, no airline employees sees you. When you check in, they can tell if you look arab, see if you are carrying some islamic books/magazines and if so, flag your boarding pass to get the full "VIP" treatment. You couldn’t do that for web-purchased tickets.
Response:
> How do you do that with an E-ticket? The passenger doesn’t > necessarily have to bring any paper to the airport…
When I get an e-ticket, I get a confirmation of the ticketing that says it can be used to get through security. So, you can waive the computer printout and get through. OF course it is in html and can be simply changed to match any information (name, date, time) required.
Response:
:> > :> > Yes. Part of the test is to push everyone to the counter for checkin :> > (either face to face or electronic). For the given locations this is being :> > tested, the pre-boading checks have been eliminated. :> :> Remember that airlines are now responsible for checking a *name* against a :> black list of common terrorist names (islamic equivalent of "john doe"), and :> those whose names are found on the list get given special "treatment". :> :> By forcing check-in landside, it allows that special treatment to occur :> landside. If you allow gate check-in, you then allow terrorists to go airside :> before they are determined to be terrorists because they have an arabic name :> that is close to that of a suspect. :> :> In principle, it is a good move to force landside check-in. The issue is the :> famous list which is misused. : The article said "Boarding passes are critical to the screening : process: They carry coding that tells TSA inspectors which passengers : must get the toughest scrutiny." : Why can’t that "coding" be put on the TICKET instead of the boarding : pass? How do you do that with an E-ticket? The passenger doesn’t necessarily have to bring any paper to the airport… Andrew — —-> Portland, Oregon, USA <—- —-> http://www.bizave.com <—- Photo Albums and Portland Info —-> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
Response:
Interesting – the plan has some pros as noted by many of those who replied already. But the big problem for me (government flyer) is that while this system works faster for those with E-tickets, it is usually a very long wait with a paper ticket. (They have fewer check-in locations for those of us with paper tickets.) From what I read in the article, it doesn’t sound like a paper ticket will be treated any differently – we know the airlines want to get rid of them. However, because I may need to change a flight or airline at the last minute, a paper ticket is a must to avoid waiting in more than one line, i.e. the original carrier and then the new one. When are the airlines going to make E-tickets a universal system? When they do, it will help a lot of people like me. Laura – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Gate check-in is on its way out > Fri Nov 22, 9:00 AM ET > Chris Woodyard USA TODAY > The perk of picking up boarding passes at departure gates, a favorite > with hurried fliers, is disappearing. > The Transportation Security Administration has started a new system at > six airports that forces all passengers — even those not checking bags > — to obtain boarding passes before they go through security > checkpoints. The agency plans to make the change nationwide next year. > The procedure moves back to the main checkpoints the more-thorough > screening now conducted at gates as passengers board planes. Boarding > passes are critical to the screening process: They carry coding that > tells TSA inspectors which passengers must get the toughest scrutiny. > Other passengers also are picked at random for it. > The TSA prefers the new system because it puts security in a more > controlled environment. Airlines like the change because last-minute > gate searches sometimes delay flights. And TSA, which has promised an > easier time at the airport, says grumbling frequent fliers should be > pleased that they won’t have to be checked twice. > TSA and airlines say there have no reports of longer-than-normal > check-in lines. The process has been working smoothly in part because > passengers can get boarding passes from self-service check-in machines > instead of at ticket counters. And the airlines and airports testing the > system have plenty of check-in capacity in the lobby. > The airlines involved in the testing also are adding capacity. At Los > Angeles, American plans to more than double its 12 self-service machines > by Thanksgiving Day. > Northwest has 94 machines in place in Detroit. Its passengers — and > those on some other airlines — also can get boarding passes via the > Internet. > Although no industry-wide number is available, Northwest says about 25% > of its passengers check in at the gate. About 37% use self-service > machines and Internet check-in, the airline says. > Business fliers give the new procedure mixed reviews. ”I think this > really stinks,” says Sammy Tawil of Allenhurst, N.J., who was sent back > for a boarding pass when he flew from Newark this week. > But Ed Nazarko of West Orange, N.J., says it’s easy to fake a printed > itinerary, one way to get through security without a boarding pass. > ”It’s the biggest, ugliest hole in security out there.”
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes. Part of the test is to push everyone to the counter for checkin > (either face to face or electronic). For the given locations this is being > tested, the pre-boading checks have been eliminated. > Remember that airlines are now responsible for checking a *name* against a > black list of common terrorist names (islamic equivalent of "john doe"), and > those whose names are found on the list get given special "treatment". > By forcing check-in landside, it allows that special treatment to occur > landside. If you allow gate check-in, you then allow terrorists to go airside > before they are determined to be terrorists because they have an arabic name > that is close to that of a suspect. > In principle, it is a good move to force landside check-in. The issue is the > famous list which is misused.
The article said "Boarding passes are critical to the screening process: They carry coding that tells TSA inspectors which passengers must get the toughest scrutiny." Why can’t that "coding" be put on the TICKET instead of the boarding pass? Then you can still eliminate the need for the gate search, but you could still get your boarding pass at the gate (having gone through main security with your "coded" ticket, with the consquences there). What am I missing here? It seems this would solve both problems.
Response:
: Yes. Part of the test is to push everyone to the counter for checkin : (either face to face or electronic). For the given locations this is being : tested, the pre-boading checks have been eliminated. Yes, this is already in place in Detroit (as a test I guess). Last Sunday I connected in Detroit, and to get on my connecting flight, no one had to show Photo ID at the gate and no one was random-searched. Andrew — —-> Portland, Oregon, USA <—- —-> http://www.bizave.com <—- Photo Albums and Portland Info —-> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
Response:
: Sounds to me that under the present gate-check system, if you are the : unfortunate one chosen, you won’t miss your flight….but with the new : system, since the "check" is occuring away from the gate, the airline will : consider you "no-show" and leave without you. That’s not what I’d call an : improvement. That’s why you should get to the airport early. If you are making a connecting flight, you have to risk random screening a 2nd time under the current system. Under the new rules you get screened only once (maybe a random longer screening) at security, and you do not have to endure any more screenings when boarding your connecting flight. Andrew — —-> Portland, Oregon, USA <—- —-> http://www.bizave.com <—- Photo Albums and Portland Info —-> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
Response:
>> The problem as a result is that people who are flagged for a secondary gate > search can delay a flight if they board late since the flight has to wait for > the passenger who is being searched. >The question is, are they doing away with random security checks at the >gate too?
The answer was in my post that you quoted and snipped: > pass through the security checkpoint. This way, there are no gate checks > or ID requirements at the gate.
– daniel baker — http://www.cuckoo.com/daniel/
Response:
>Sounds to me that under the present gate-check system, if you are the >unfortunate one chosen, you won’t miss your flight….but with the new >system, since the "check" is occuring away from the gate, the airline will >consider you "no-show" and leave without you. That’s not what I’d call an >improvement.
If you board early in hopes of overhead space near the front of the cabin and are selected for a search, this can be a hueg problem. I consider it a significant improvement. I’ll fly about 110 segments this year and have been "random checked" at the gate about 30-40% of the time. It will be great to not have to worry about getting searched before each flight. Minimally, it’s only possible to be saerched as you go through security, not during a connection. — daniel baker — http://www.cuckoo.com/daniel/
Response:
> Yes. Part of the test is to push everyone to the counter for checkin > (either face to face or electronic). For the given locations this is being > tested, the pre-boading checks have been eliminated.
Remember that airlines are now responsible for checking a *name* against a black list of common terrorist names (islamic equivalent of "john doe"), and those whose names are found on the list get given special "treatment". By forcing check-in landside, it allows that special treatment to occur landside. If you allow gate check-in, you then allow terrorists to go airside before they are determined to be terrorists because they have an arabic name that is close to that of a suspect. In principle, it is a good move to force landside check-in. The issue is the famous list which is misused.
Response:
Sounds to me that under the present gate-check system, if you are the unfortunate one chosen, you won’t miss your flight….but with the new system, since the "check" is occuring away from the gate, the airline will consider you "no-show" and leave without you. That’s not what I’d call an improvement.
require people to check in before passing through security – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> so that anyone flagged can have the secondary security check done as they > pass through the security checkpoint. This way, there are no gate checks > or ID requirements at the gate.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> The problem as a result is that people who are flagged for a secondary >> gate >> search can delay a flight if they board late since the flight has to wait >> for >> the passenger who is being searched. >The question is, are they doing away with random security checks at the >gate too? > The answer was in my post that you quoted and snipped: >> pass through the security checkpoint. This way, there are no gate checks >> or ID requirements at the gate.
gate checks perhaps for those selected by CAPS but there is still the annoying random checks.
Response:
> The problem as a result is that people who are flagged for a secondary gate > search can delay a flight if they board late since the flight has to wait for > the passenger who is being searched.
The question is, are they doing away with random security checks at the gate too?
Response:
> > The problem as a result is that people who are flagged for a secondary gate > search can delay a flight if they board late since the flight has to wait for > the passenger who is being searched. > The question is, are they doing away with random security checks at the > gate too?
Random by what standards? - Manuel.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > The problem as a result is that people who are flagged for a secondary > > gate > > search can delay a flight if they board late since the flight has to wait > > for > > the passenger who is being searched. > The question is, are they doing away with random security checks at the > gate too? > Random by what standards?
gate agent’s or TSA agent’s choice?
Response:
Yes. Part of the test is to push everyone to the counter for checkin (either face to face or electronic). For the given locations this is being tested, the pre-boading checks have been eliminated. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The problem as a result is that people who are flagged for a secondary gate > search can delay a flight if they board late since the flight has to wait for > the passenger who is being searched. > The question is, are they doing away with random security checks at the > gate too?
Response:
Of course, all the terorists from 9/11 had boarding passes, photo IDs etc.
Response:
>Of course, all the terorists from 9/11 had boarding passes, photo IDs etc.
If only everyone was as smart as you. The idea of allowing only ticketed passengers through security is not to prevent a terrorist from getting into the terminal, but to allow fewer people through security so that the screeners have less load and can focus on people that actually have to be in the terminals. The problem as a result is that people who are flagged for a secondary gate search can delay a flight if they board late since the flight has to wait for the passenger who is being searched. The solution is to require people to check in before passing through security so that anyone flagged can have the secondary security check done as they pass through the security checkpoint. This way, there are no gate checks or ID requirements at the gate. — daniel baker — http://www.cuckoo.com/daniel/
Response:
Gate check-in is on its way out Fri Nov 22, 9:00 AM ET Chris Woodyard USA TODAY The perk of picking up boarding passes at departure gates, a favorite with hurried fliers, is disappearing. The Transportation Security Administration has started a new system at six airports that forces all passengers — even those not checking bags — to obtain boarding passes before they go through security checkpoints. The agency plans to make the change nationwide next year. The procedure moves back to the main checkpoints the more-thorough screening now conducted at gates as passengers board planes. Boarding passes are critical to the screening process: They carry coding that tells TSA inspectors which passengers must get the toughest scrutiny. Other passengers also are picked at random for it. The TSA prefers the new system because it puts security in a more controlled environment. Airlines like the change because last-minute gate searches sometimes delay flights. And TSA, which has promised an easier time at the airport, says grumbling frequent fliers should be pleased that they won’t have to be checked twice. TSA and airlines say there have no reports of longer-than-normal check-in lines. The process has been working smoothly in part because passengers can get boarding passes from self-service check-in machines instead of at ticket counters. And the airlines and airports testing the system have plenty of check-in capacity in the lobby. The airlines involved in the testing also are adding capacity. At Los Angeles, American plans to more than double its 12 self-service machines by Thanksgiving Day. Northwest has 94 machines in place in Detroit. Its passengers — and those on some other airlines — also can get boarding passes via the Internet. Although no industry-wide number is available, Northwest says about 25% of its passengers check in at the gate. About 37% use self-service machines and Internet check-in, the airline says. Business fliers give the new procedure mixed reviews. ”I think this really stinks,” says Sammy Tawil of Allenhurst, N.J., who was sent back for a boarding pass when he flew from Newark this week. But Ed Nazarko of West Orange, N.J., says it’s easy to fake a printed itinerary, one way to get through security without a boarding pass. ”It’s the biggest, ugliest hole in security out there.”