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Marketing Resource Guide
Question:
>I think it is a great idea. But I’ve learned for some reason people *in >this newsgroup as I’m sure others* don’t get excited all that much at ideas >that can benefit them…. >…But also any idea for a resource which may not generate response initially >needs to be constantly exposed, persistence is key…
I’m less magnanimous than you John. I’ve found that if people don’t get excited right quick, the effort to win ‘em over is usually too great. However, I (humbly) think the MRG is a *terrific* idea. >The interest may not be there as to the idea but once the idea comes >reality, people use it and contribute to it.
But who wants these foresight-lacking Johnny-come-lately’s anyway? >Therefore, rather than seeing this idea die, I’ll offer my assistance to >getting a MRG established, so here are my thoughts.
I never accused *you* of lacking foresight! >If a MRG were to just be create for NY or East Coast, it would be >manageable. Since we are a global group, are you talk’n international, USA, >regional? If response (not feedback) were high, that would be a big chore!
Why not think big? I don’t want to exclude anyone at this point, and I’m not too worried that we’ll get hit by an avalanche. I don’t see as much need for the list to be regionalized as you apparently do. Indeed, a lot of the value is having referred contacts that you could not easily visit yourself. We’re in New York but our main printer is in Chicago, our tape duplicator is in Nebraska, our call center is in Iowa, etc. There are few service providers these days that *must* be local (once you have a working relationship set up). [Moderator's Comment: The main reason I suggested *regional* is because this newsgroup isn't just read by US or North American residents. Certainly, here in Europe, we see using suppliers outside one's country but it is not practiced as it is in the US. And what about the Far East. Located in Japan, printer in Taiwan, call center in Hong Kong. So if you want an MRG, sure for the US you could just have a listening but if you want a global MRG, there's more to consider. Although the business language generally is English here in Europe, the differences at this time still play a significant part. A company with a call center in Amsterdam (8 languages), printer in Poland, Ad firm in the UK....doesn't run that smoothly as your personal example. The Polish printer has great prices and service, yet speaks no English, thus everything has to relayed via another party. For some that's no problem, for others, a pain. So when the language is other than English, IMHO, best to regionalize rather than just by service or otherwise. But of course, here I'm just commenting in case you were thinking of including the rest of the world. 
-JG] >One way as to the *how*, is to create an autoresponder which could trigger a >script of taking the email content and placing it in a text file or perhaps >d-base; all automated, no work, except for setting up the initial scripts.
Like many entrepreneurs, I fantasize about developing a total "lights-out" internet-driven business. However, I don’t know of a single one that can operate without ongoing human intervention. Same thing here. I think this thing needs a human in the loop; an editor/fact checker/B.S. filter to ensure usable, high quality content. [Moderator's Comments: Of course there still needs to be an editor. The process can be automated til it hits a text file or dbase. At that point the editor cleans it up. -JG] 2nd call for comments… vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO Direct Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO
Response:
I’m not certain I understand this thread (I missed the beginning) but if you’re looking for a somewhat different approach for marketing support, try the Marketing section of my Technoplex Answer Page (http://www.technoplex.com/answerpage.html). It combines a searchable knowledge base with a group of volunteer experts to facilitate discussions about marketing issues. Perhaps best of all, there’s no cost to any of the users or experts. With the right mix of questions and answers, the Answer Page knowledge base could become the Marketing Resource Guide discussed in this thread. Try it! — Kurt Schweitzer Sunrise Consulting, Inc. 716-427-7574 http://www.sunriseconsulting.com/ Small Business Technoplex – http://www.technoplex.com
Response:
I would really like to contribute to M.B.M. but can’t find it. [ModSpeak: Wayne, ask your ISP to carry it. -JG] The Maverick Partnership Perth Western Australia http://www.maverick.com.nf – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I guess my idea of "all automated, no work" differs slightly from >yours.
Response:
>Here are a coupe of Marketing Resources that I have found beneficial, and >contrary to Victor and John, I have found that by giving away really good >ideas, you get really great gems back… > [Moderator's Note: Wayne, Victor's proposed Marketing Resource Guide > would be as to suppliers of services/products, specifically offline. > I can't speak for Victor, but I certainly don't mind sharing IMO the > best magazines, gurus, books, and www sites. And have done so at the > MBMM site. > Also, as for giving away *really* good ideas, both Victor and I have > done so many times over in MBMM. -JG]
Oh yeah John? Then where the heck are all those "really great gems" I’ve been expecting? It’s been over a year and all I’m getting is cubic zirconia and that horrible "pink ice" (but at least it’s better than the chunk of blue ice that crashed through our roof last year). Have the rest of you been sending the really good stuff directly to John? Seriously, Wayne has a good concept here: a "Marketing Information Guide," independent of, yet congruent with my proposed "Marketing Resource Guide." Like the MRG, it would be an *endorsed* listing of marketing info resources. Wayne, since you started it, I guess the job is yours. Congratulations! By the way, you mentioned a couple of mags I’ve heard about but don’t read: Business Review Weekly, ICOn, FastCompany, and Bulletin. Would you mind sharing what they’re about and why you like them? Also, I’ve heard of the Australian gurus Chris Newton (a Jay Abraham protege?) and Peter Sun (according to Millard Grubb, he’s supposed to be excellent), but not Paul Dunn. Any specific works from these guys that you’d recommend? vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO Direct Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO
Response:
> [Moderator's Comment: The main reason I suggested *regional* is because > this newsgroup isn't just read by US or North American residents... > ...But of course, here I'm just commenting in case you were thinking of > including the rest of the world. -JG]
Ok John. How’s this: I’ll handle North America and you can do Europe (and everywhere else if you like). At some point in the future, we can cross-pollinate ‘em. >One way as to the *how*, is to create an autoresponder which could trigger a >script of taking the email content and placing it in a text file or perhaps >d-base; all automated, no work, except for setting up the initial scripts.
>Like many entrepreneurs, I fantasize about developing a total >"lights-out" internet-driven business. However, I don’t know of a >single one that can operate without ongoing human intervention. Same >thing here. I think this thing needs a human in the loop; an >editor/fact checker/B.S. filter to ensure usable, high quality >content. > [Moderator's Comments: Of course there still needs to be an editor. > The process can be automated til it hits a text file or dbase. > At that point the editor cleans it up. -JG]
I guess my idea of "all automated, no work" differs slightly from yours. [Moderator's Comment: Are there truly "all automated, no work" businesses? One still needs to manage. Sipping Pina Colada on the North Shore with one's laptop and cell phone still means managing. Got to *work* on that tan. -JG] vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO Direct Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO
Response:
>I guess my idea of "all automated, no work" differs slightly from >yours. > [Moderator's Comment: Are there truly "all automated, no work" > businesses? One still needs to manage. Sipping Pina Colada on > the North Shore with one's laptop and cell phone still means > managing. Got to *work* on that tan. -JG]
— John, you bring up a really interesting point: "What business/marketing activities and responsibilities should you never delegate?" This is a thread that rightly deserves to be discussed in misc.business.moderated. However, I’m afraid that m.b.m. never reached "critical mass" and is now, for all intents and purposes, mort. [ModSpeak: I'm still hopeful, Paul and I just need to spend time getting it going. It has no way near propagated as MBMM did when it started. MBM control messages had a lot of problems. I see it more as a problem of not being known. BTW, since I have the clout, I've also posted it to MBM ] Another appropriate NG for this thread topic would be misc.entrepreneurs.moderated, but I’m not optimistic about that NG’s future either. [ModSpeak: I have no comment.] Of course, the "all automated, no work" business (like the perpetual motion machine) is an unreachable ideal. Nonetheless, the concept can present a worthwhile objective for many of us. Clearly, we can think of many of the tasks that we personally perform that can be easily delegated to an employee, subcontractor, free lancer, or *computer*. But what are the crucial things that, on an ongoing basis, absolutely require our personal oversight? Personally, I regard the analysis of response to be something I couldn’t think of handing over to someone else. I look at the numbers every day and make decisions based on what’s working and what isn’t. But here’s an area that’s less clear for me: copywriting. I write almost all of our copy. It’s very time consuming. If you’ve ever done serious copywriting, you know that at least 90% is research and maybe 10% is actual writing and editing. Because copy is *central* to the success of any campaign, I’m loathe to delegate it. But writing copy is not the highest and best use of my time. I should spend more time negotiating with venture partners and vendors and discovering new products and services to market. I know plenty of good copywriters — but few people that I’d trust to negotiate the details of contracts for me. I’d like to hear about your experiences along these lines. vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO Direct Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO [ModSpeak: Placing a lot of comments in your messages of late. I'm too lazy to reply separately <g> -JG]
Response:
Here are a coupe of Marketing Resources that I have found beneficial, and contrary to Victor and John, I have found that by giving away really good ideas, you get really great gems back. Monthly magazines and the new book sections of them: INC, Fortune, INC Technology, Success, Business Review Weekly, ICOn (it’s new!!), FastCompany, Entrepeneur, Time and Bulletin… sometimes Atlanta Monthly… Guru’s worth reviewing….. Jay Abraham… there are a number of articles on the web, Jeff Lant.. but you have to read between the lines, Gary Halbert…. Dan Kennedy… and in Australia… Paul Dunn, Chris Newton, Peter Sun and (hands over mouth….) Wayne Mansfield Books…. anything by Tom Peters, Harvey Mackay, John Naismith, Jay Conrad Levinson (Guerilla Marketing) On Line, 1st Steps Marketing and Design…. — The Maverick Partnership Perth Western Australia www.maverick.com.nf Visit for free copy of The Maverick Spirit Newsletter! [Moderator's Note: Wayne, Victor's proposed Marketing Resource Guide would be as to suppliers of services/products, specifically offline. I can't speak for Victor, but I certainly don't mind sharing IMO the best magazines, gurus, books, and www sites. And have done so at the MBMM site. Also, as for giving away *really* good ideas, both Victor and I have done so many times over in MBMM. -JG]
Response:
Victor I found your list of types of potential resources interesting. It left me thinking how would that type of business be useful to me? Maybe I should be using that type of business? I look forward to seeing the list even if it only Jogs my memory. p.s. I can not stop thinking of how much they would charge for a rabbit! @# Jon Thornes, Lincoln, UK Home page http://members.aol.com/jonthornes/Jon/home.htm @#
Response:
>>I think it is a great idea. But I’ve learned for some reason people *in >this newsgroup as I’m sure others* don’t get excited all that much at ideas >that can benefit them…. >…But also any idea for a resource which may not generate response >initially needs to be constantly exposed, persistence is key… >I’m less magnanimous than you John. I’ve found that if people don’t >get excited right quick, the effort to win ‘em over is usually too >great. However, I (humbly) think the MRG is a *terrific* idea. >Therefore, rather than seeing this idea die, I’ll offer my assistance to >getting a MRG established, so here are my thoughts. >If a MRG were to just be create for NY or East Coast, it would be >manageable. Since we are a global group, are you talk’n international, USA, >regional? If response (not feedback) were high, that would be a big chore!
Having fallen into the middle of this, after being gone a lot, I suspect that regional can be either local or multi state. It will depend on the partners and the need to get together physically. >I don’t see as much need for the list to be regionalized as you >apparently do. Indeed, a lot of the value is having referred contacts >that you could not easily visit yourself. We’re in New York but our >main printer is in Chicago, our tape duplicator is in Nebraska, our >call center is in Iowa, etc. There are few service providers these >days that *must* be local (once you have a working relationship set >up).
Many can be handled over the phone, or by E-mail, but some can’t. Translating art from an idea to finished product, is not doable to a great extent for this reason. The artist has to "see" the customer wants, and this can be a napkin sketch. (Very hard to fax, or e-mail.) >[Moderator's Comment: The main reason I suggested *regional* is because >this newsgroup isn't just read by US or North American residents. >Certainly, here in Europe, we see using suppliers outside one's country >but it is not practiced as it is in the US. And what about the Far East. >Located in Japan, printer in Taiwan, call center in Hong Kong. > So if you want an MRG, sure for the US you could just have a listening >but if you want a global MRG, there's more to consider. So when the language >is other than English, IMHO, best to regionalize rather than just by service >or otherwise. But of course, here I'm just commenting in case you were >thinking of including the rest of the world. -JG] >2nd call for comments… >vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO >Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO
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> And your URL is…?
Writing for myself, with my own opinion, my company’s URL does not enter into it. But, if you want to buy our book, check out www.mistakes.com! Is that self-promotion ;)? Jon
Response:
> So you don’t like my idea Chris? That’s OK, from the lack of > response, it seems nobody else does either.
I think it is a great idea. But I’ve learned for some reason people *in this newsgroup as I’m sure others* don’t get excited all that much at ideas that can benefit them. We’ve all seen this from time to time. For me, it’s become; no one expresses interest, why should I bother. > Oh well. Every once in a while I get this crazy idea that we can > somehow leverage our collective resources to everyone’s benefit. > Silly me.
Oh, I like being silly with you Vic..eh Victor. MBMM (as other NGs) traffic is down a bit and I suspect that has to do with vacation time. But also any idea for a resource which may not generate response initially needs to be constantly exposed, persistence is key. The interest may not be there as to the idea but once the idea comes reality, people use it and contribute to it. Therefore, rather than seeing this idea die, I’ll offer my assistance to getting a MRG established, so here are my thoughts. If a MRG were to just be create for NY or East Coast, it would be manageable. Since we are a global group, are you talk’n international, USA, regional? If response (not feedback) were high, that would be a big chore! One way as to the *how*, is to create an autoresponder which could trigger a script of taking the email content and placing it in a text file or perhaps d-base; all automated, no work, except for setting up the initial scripts. : There could be scripts for input, each country, area (MRG resource: Guam). Once, if talking, country and state guides were created, they could easily (automated) be processed to html. Autoresponders could be set for each MRG offering (MRG: Guam, MRG: NY) which would send back the requested MRG. I will in the short term be able to set up infinite email boxes thus set up autoresponders for each guide. The autoresponder list could be placed on the www as well as periodically posted to MBMM/MBM. Of course, you can do this all under the Optran site…I’m just offering. As to Chris’s comments regarding not sharing the very best. None of use truly ever for any situation give out our true gems. But we all have backups that are almost as good that we will share. And of course, to just enter a contract based on a recommendation is foolish. — John Gerits
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Now, some of these vendors are the "secret to our success" and I’m > going to keep them secret… > At the same time, I believe m.b.m.m. marketers and entrepreneurs would > greatly benefit from the mutual sharing of our resource contacts. >Victor, you’ve long contributed a great deal of substantive material to >these NGs. But I’m afraid you’ve lost me on this idea. >As you point out, you’re keeping your own best recommendations to yourself. >Wouldn’t others do the same? So, just what’s the point of going to all this >trouble to compile second-rate (by definition) or worse referrals? And then >"endorse" them? The ones we don’t like enough to keep "secret"?
— So you don’t like my idea Chris? That’s OK, from the lack of response, it seems nobody else does either. Oh well. Every once in a while I get this crazy idea that we can somehow leverage our collective resources to everyone’s benefit. Silly me. Your point of concern about second string recommendations is well taken. However, you edited out an important sentence from my post: "…But there are a whole host of others that are truly excellent and whose names I can share. They have proven themselves to us and deserve our support in return." It does not diminish our competitive advantage to share the vast majority of our vendor contacts. Certainly, there are some whose time and resources are limited, and can barely accommodate the demands we place upon them. Of course, I’m not going to worsen that situation by including them on a listing. But these are the exception rather than the rule. Even if it’s not all-inclusive, I’m sure you’ll agree that an endorsed list like I proposed beats random directory searching, hands down. vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO Direct Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO
Response:
> A good idea Victor, but I’d be concerned about self promotion. I think > we’ve seen on mbmm that, no matter how diligent our moderator is, someone > finds a way to get in a post that as its sole purpose self-promotion. I > don’t think I need cite specific examples.
I would never… > Also, while most people here know my company’s name, we are involved in > several partnerships and joint ventures. What’s to stop me (if I were > unscrupulous) from recommending those and benefiting that way?
Whether you note them or not is immaterial. It is how someone responds with their investigation of your (or the recommended) company and its legitimacy prior to entering into an agreement with you that counts. And if someone is willing to enter into a business arrangement with any firm without fully checking them out, they deserve everything that may happen to them. And if you recommend someone who is adept at fulfilling a particular task for a specific prospective client, then who cares if you benefit or not? > Jon Hutter > Holt Hughes & Stamell (now everyone knows) > Portland Maine > (writing for myself)
And your URL is…? Steve Crisp PagePlop Web Hosting Service http://www.pageplop.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Now, some of these vendors are the "secret to our success" and I’m > going to keep them secret… > At the same time, I believe m.b.m.m. marketers and entrepreneurs would > greatly benefit from the mutual sharing of our resource contacts. > So, what am I getting at? What do you think about contributing to a > "Marketing Resource Guide?" Now, I’m not talking about some loose > collection of names and addresses, but an *endorsed* list. That means > that *your* name and personal recommendation (based on actual business > dealings) would appear alongside the company you recommend. > Would you contribute a listing of, say, half a dozen vendor contacts? > Assuming that you think this is a good idea, the next issue to > consider is the *how* of collecting and disseminating the list. I > could probably have someone at Optran compile and publish it via > e-mail or a web site. And, no, I don’t expect to turn this into a > profit center!
Victor, you’ve long contributed a great deal of substantive material to these NGs. But I’m afraid you’ve lost me on this idea. As you point out, you’re keeping your own best recommendations to yourself. Wouldn’t others do the same? So, just what’s the point of going to all this trouble to compile second-rate (by definition) or worse referrals? And then "endorse" them? The ones we don’t like enough to keep "secret"? — To send email, remove "NO" from email address showing.
Response:
A while back we discussed the importance of vendor relationships. I spend a lot of time identifying quality organizations to work with, and then even more time cultivating those relationships. Now, some of these vendors are the "secret to our success" and I’m going to keep them secret. But there are a whole host of others that are truly excellent and whose names I can share. They have proven themselves to us and deserve our support in return. At the same time, I believe m.b.m.m. marketers and entrepreneurs would greatly benefit from the mutual sharing of our resource contacts. So, what am I getting at? What do you think about contributing to a "Marketing Resource Guide?" Now, I’m not talking about some loose collection of names and addresses, but an *endorsed* list. That means that *your* name and personal recommendation (based on actual business dealings) would appear alongside the company you recommend. Would you contribute a listing of, say, half a dozen vendor contacts? Here’s a partial listing of the kinds of resources I’m thinking about (no particular order): Lettershops Mailing List Brokers Graphics Designers Copywriters Printers Tape Duplicators Fulfillment Houses Card Deck Mailers Prepress Houses Inbound Telemarketers Outbound Telemarketers Media Buyers Voice Mail Services Notice that there’s nothing specifically listed for internet/web resources. That’s on purpose. I think the thing could get out-of-hand if that category is mixed in. It probably deserves a separate listing. Assuming that you think this is a good idea, the next issue to consider is the *how* of collecting and disseminating the list. I could probably have someone at Optran compile and publish it via e-mail or a web site. And, no, I don’t expect to turn this into a profit center! I’m just looking for feedback at this point. vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO Direct Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO
Response:
A good idea Victor, but I’d be concerned about self promotion. I think we’ve seen on mbmm that, no matter how diligent our moderator is, someone finds a way to get in a post that as its sole purpose self-promotion. I don’t think I need cite specific examples. Also, while most people here know my company’s name, we are involved in several partnerships and joint ventures. What’s to stop me (if I were unscrupulous) from recommending those and benefiting that way? Of course, it’s easy to cite these problems, harder to come up with solutions. If I think of any, I will let you know. Jon Hutter Holt Hughes & Stamell (now everyone knows) Portland Maine (writing for myself)