Business History Books » Business Consulting » business on the web
business on the web
Question:
:>Actually, I agree that too many people think the Net is going to get :>them sales because they are somewhere in cyberspace, and these are the :>ones who cry the loudest when it brings in practically nothing. : Am I the only one that see’s that those with an offline business are not the : ones crying, rather it is the wave of new "online" business; Net related, : service, and home business that are "start-ups" because of the low entry : barriers? In many respects I am one of those "new guys", even though I’ve been doing this full-time for over three years now. My business is entirely Internet based. The thing that most "newbies" don’t realize is that being on the Net doesn’t replace ANY traditional business skills. Things like planning, budgetting, product differentiation, knowing your product, knowing your customers — all are still important. The other thing to realize is that many "newbies" are placing themselves in the extremely difficult position of "mall developers". This is making them middlemen who must not only satisfy their paying "tenants", but also attract "shoppers" to make their stores viable. How many people are really good at both sides of this equation? Personally, I enjoy the challenges of a Web-based business. Time will tell if it was the right decision for me! — Kurt Schweitzer Sunrise Consulting, Inc. 716-427-7574 http://www.sunriseconsulting.com/ Small Business Technoplex – http://www.technoplex.com
Response:
> Am I the only one that see’s that those with an offline business are not the > ones crying, rather it is the wave of new "online" business; Net related, > service, and home business that are "start-ups" because of the low entry > barriers?
No… I deal with a number of them, and they are sufferring as loudly as every one else (maybe even louder). The trouble, as far as I can see, is that they forget that low-cost entry businesses require a lot of "hard yakka" — lots of effort to "create" a presence and lots of "education" of the people they want to reach. It’s like MLM: a great idea for a low entry barrier, but success is based on having the right mix of buyers and downline. It costs practically nothing to start, but the building up of clientele and structure has a high cost in terms of personal effort. Not that I want to compare MLM with Internet-type business, but there are a lot of similarities in making them successful. I think it was you who pointed out (in another thread) that Internet business success depends a lot on outside promotion to get the pump primed. It still holds true. Off-line businesses have one major advantage: you can get to see the people you are dealing with directly, so you can more easlity measure your penetration into the market. (Thanks for your note about Confidence and will get to you later on that) Funds equal Fitness times Fun (squared) The Ur (aka Peter B Budvietas) http://ww.eba.co.nz
Response:
>Why don’t you people get down to some real business topics instead of >jumping on the Web band wagon?
Have you read Marketing Myopia by Theodore Levitt? It is a very short article, the key point of which is businesses should plan to replace themselves before someone else does. One example would be Hollywood Studios did not invest heavily in the early days of television though they had the money and talent etc. They lost their entertainment market share as people stopped going to the cinema numerous times a week. Retail, services, publishing, even advertising and direct marketing might be superceded by online activities. The "bandwagon" therefore is a key business issue. The benefit of discussing the subject here is though there is lots of information available about creating a corporate site, technical issues and the work of flash designers, hands on marketing information is rare. John John Block Creative, marketing aware work which Freelance Copywriter talks rather than blandly bores, actively promotes your product, International and aims to be the best Welcomes Dollar and Sterling, in your market sector.
Response:
>As you pose it, the key then would be just how any given local business >might first determine their prospects for gain via a web site. Before they >decide just how to go about making it or promoting. So – how do you >determine that?
You stop worrying about it and have fun. The costs of entry of doing the job properly with space, domain name etc. are comparativly low. Simply gaining a presence can be as cheap as using the free website you get with an internet account. Get hold of a bright kid who can set up a free site at http://www.geocities.com/BHI/freehp.html and enter you into the search engines and be in an area covered by http://www.tpc.int (free email to fax service) and you could be on the net without even having a connection! John John Block Creative, marketing aware work which Freelance Copywriter talks rather than blandly bores, actively promotes your product, International and aims to be the best Welcomes Dollar and Sterling, in your market sector.
Response:
>Actually, I agree that too many people think the Net is going to get >them sales because they are somewhere in cyberspace, and these are the >ones who cry the loudest when it brings in practically nothing.
Am I the only one that see’s that those with an offline business are not the ones crying, rather it is the wave of new "online" business; Net related, service, and home business that are "start-ups" because of the low entry barriers? — John Gerits Weekly – Best of MBMM Digest. To subscribe:
Response:
> Hi, just read your response to biz on the web – you’re exactly right. I do > Internet Marketing and will only work for companies that truley have a clear > objective for being on the web.
One of the things that bugs me about a lot of people and "marketing" is that they forget there are two main reasons for advertising: (a) to sell a product/service. (b) to create awareness of the organization/company/business. The first is about getting an income from the advertising, and is the one that people want to do most of the time. It’s where most of their dollars should be spent, whether it is on the internet or not. This works when the product is reasonably well known, when it contains the right information for people to make the buying decision, when it reaches the people who make that decision. The trouble is that the Net is really not a selling medium, but it is a great place to put out all the necessary information. The second is essentiall "selling the company/business/organization" so that people will think of it when they need something. This is what the Net is really good at doing. As such, it does not, in itself, bring in turnover, but it sets the conditions against which the first set can work. > I know exactly what you mean about rejecting clients/work because they just > "want to be on the web." In marketing – ok, they sold the pet rock, but on > the net, people aren’t stupid and you can’t sell them snake oil.
Oh? most of us bought the "snake oil" of the internet itself, especially the Web side of things. Actually, I agree that too many people think the Net is going to get them sales because they are somewhere in cyberspace, and these are the ones who cry the loudest when it brings in practically nothing. People still buy to satisfy a need or a want, and it is still an "emotional" decision. the stupidity comes when people don’t temper the emotioanl part of the decision to be on the Net… > I love working on the net though – it’s by far the most challenging, > fascinating industry I’ve been in. There are a lot of really bright > people out there – the speed of the competition is thrilling….
See? Snake oil! > Best of luck to you!
Ditto… And enjoy it! The Ur http://www.eba.co.nz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Julianne
Response:
: Why don’t you people get down to some real business topics instead of : jumping on the Web band wagon? The web is big businnes and if you don’t think so there is a possibility that all the blood went to your head while you were buttoning your shoes 
— I wish you a GREAT DAY!!! Bill STOP****STOP****Beyond here there be advertising, read at your own peril!!! William "Bill" Hodges, DTM PDG, **AUTHOR**KEYNOTE SPEAKER**TRAINER** HODGES SEMINARS INTERNATIONAL – WHERE GREAT DAYS BEGIN Free motivational messages for your newsletter or enjoyment on our web site. Bill’s the author of the BEST SELLING motivational book "Within Your Reach."
Response:
: > Why don’t you people get down to some real business topics instead of : > jumping on the Web band wagon? [Answered in another post] : Sorry, I guess that Dell selling $1m of product per *day* off their web : site and Cisco selling $75m of product in the first five months of web : operation aren’t "real business". Even if they were not selling directly, but just providing customer support, and therefore vacating a couple of places on the 1-800 lines, that would be business. Or even, just advertising their products. The original post is partly flamebait, but we have to keep in mind that the Web is an addition to, not a substitution of, business practice. This is something that some people seem to forget. — http://web.mit.edu/camoes/public/home.html
Response:
> Which types of company cannot benefit from having a web site?
Depending on several factors (customer search costs, involvement with the product, firm’s presence in other channels) the firm may have as a optimal strategy not to offer any real information on their web site. This can cause customers who go there to feel frustrated and decrease their valuation for the firm’s brands. These firms should (for now) abstain from presence in the web. > Yes, too often firms are greatly disappointed by the results of their web > site. I would argue that this is generally due to poor publicity rather > than because of an unsuitability to the web.
Prof. Florian Zettelmyer at Rochester U. has a paper online which explains why there are other very good reasons why a web site may be bad for you. It’s not that the firms are unsuited to the web. It has to do with channels configuration (both for distribution and for information). > We’ve all seen great web sites which help us order a company’s products, > re-inforce a brand or achieve some other target. Any business could have > a web site which would do this.
As you will see from that paper, that is not so. — http://web.mit.edu/camoes/public/home.html
Response:
> As you pose it, the key then would be just how any given local business > might first determine their prospects for gain via a web site. Before they > decide just how to go about making it or promoting. So – how do you > determine that?
Well, for starters, a little marketing survey would be in order. Rather than just trying to identify your potential market, though, you also want to identify those inculded in that market cohort who not only own computers, but who are also connected to the web, who browse the web and at what frequency, whether they use email, what are their previous purchasing habits on the web versus non-web expenditures, and a host of other things. For many small firms, such an undertaking is too daunting to consider, but they can simplify things greatly by just surveying their existing customer base and then making assumptions about the general population based on the responses of existing customers versus the aggregate population totals in a given trade region for those expressing those same attributes in a far larger marketing survey such as the census or one conducted by the Chamber of Commerce. The next thing that needs to be approached is how to correlate a potential web site into existing promotion and advertising. If the business does not currently do any significant advertising, then they perhaps would like to really second think the appropriateness of a web site. People are not just going to flock to a site on their own; they need to first know it exists as a basic premise. Now that may sound intuitive, but you have no idea of how many people I run into that have gotten disgusted with their existing sites. I ask them how they are promoting it and the usual response is through search engines. They are complaining yet at the same time not even bothering to promote the site locally to their local audience. Another thing concerns what are you going to give visitors when they hit your site? Is the site going to be a glorified Yellow Page ad? Or is it going to be commerce oriented? What about information oriented? Or a combination of all those and more? You have to provide a draw and that draw does not even have to change with any kind of intense frequency or technical machinations. There just needs to be a reason why someone would want to hit your site. Remember, most potential local markets are the entire local population (or a substantial majority of that population.) Just as you would not want an entire city eating lunch at your restaurant every day, you do want a mix of regulars as well as infrequent guests (on the other end of the spectrum) to eat at your establishment. Infrequent changes to a web site may leave your regulars somewhat bored (though still eating lunch with you,) but you can continue to tap new customers all the time and for some time to come without a given site getting boring to a given individual (because that given individual has not seen your site yet.) Then there is money. How much can a client logically spend on a web site (or any advertising or promotion) before the ratio of ad expenditures to sales becomes unreasonable? A small firm who wants wall-to-wall technoglitz on a shoestring budget had better know how to do the programming in-house’ no reputable designer is going to construct a $50,000 site for $500 (unless there is a good, strong product involved that the designer believes in and that designer has worked out a deal for percentage of sales coming through the web site.) But another consideration beyond the expenditure to existing sales margins is that of expenditures to expected sales from the web site. Make sure that the client is not making unreasonable expectations of how much name recognition, walk-in traffic, or on-line sales are to be had via a wwb site. Too many clients think that putting up a web site is like opening that second location with three times as much square footage and in a better location. In the words of Homey, "I don’t think so…" (sorry for our European readers who will never understand that reference.) But when all is said and done, make sure that the client knows not only the potential up-side of a web site, but also the full down-side. It’s a simple process called disclosure. Steve Crisp PagePlop Web Hosting Service http://www.pageplop.com
Response:
> In marketing – ok, they sold the pet rock, but on > the net, people aren’t stupid and you can’t sell them snake oil.
Well, marketing is not about selling to stupid people. Marketing is about selling. And the "pet rock" being a strawman, I’d like to point out that air conditioning, radio (and hence television) and almost all of the nice things that we take for granted in life are the outcome of, guess what, marketing: taking technology and making products out of it. Without which, these would be curiosities. Then, what was that about people on the ‘net not being stupid, again? We have only to travel to talk.* groups to dispel that myth. And about snake oil, how many people fall for Ponzi schemes on the ‘net again? — http://web.mit.edu/camoes/public/home.html (617)253-3198 Fax:258-7597
Response:
:> Steve Crisp wrote, in part: :> :> Yes, too often firms are greatly disappointed by the results of their web :> site. I would argue that this is generally due to poor publicity rather :> than because of an unsuitability to the web. : I would say poor publicity, design or content. I’ve searched for sites : that I know exist in major search engines and been unable to find : them. Design flaws or "enhancements" can discourage promotion. Some : content isn’t worth reading twice. :> It is frequently argued that companies selling to local customers cannot :> gain from a web site. Whilst I do accept that some convenience shops :> (newsagents, for example) would be ill-advised to have a web site, I :> believe many web marketers over-state this and suggest all businesses :> with a local focus are unsuited for the web. Why? :> If I set up a local-oriented web site which adds value to my business :> and gives consumers something they want all I need to do is promote this :> site effectively. Promotion via the Internet itself would be silly; I :> should focus my promotion efforts on my local area. What sort of business :> (other than the case I cited above) do you believe would not benefit from :> having a well-thought-out web presence? As you pose it, the key then would be just how any given local business might first determine their prospects for gain via a web site. Before they decide just how to go about making it or promoting. So – how do you determine that? best, Christopher
Response:
:> often, firms are left twisting in the wind as their web site sits there :> and does absolutely nothing. That is bad… :Yes, too often firms are greatly disappointed by the results of their web :site. I would argue that this is generally due to poor publicity rather :than because of an unsuitability to the web. I would say poor publicity, design or content. I’ve searched for sites that I know exist in major search engines and been unable to find them. Design flaws or "enhancements" can discourage promotion. Some content isn’t worth reading twice. :It is frequently argued that companies selling to local customers cannot :gain from a web site. Whilst I do accept that some convenience shops 
newsagents, for example) would be ill-advised to have a web site, I :believe many web marketers over-state this and suggest all businesses :with a local focus are unsuited for the web. Why? :If I set up a local-oriented web site which adds value to my business :and gives consumers something they want all I need to do is promote this :site effectively. Promotion via the Internet itself would be silly; I :should focus my promotion efforts on my local area. What sort of business other than the case I cited above) do you believe would not benefit from :having a well-thought-out web presence? I disagree, depending upon the site. The company is probably already advertsing locally. They are now going to advertise their Web site. I can understand adding the site to various advertisements. I suppose it depends upon whether the site is truly capable of generating revenue. Promoting through the net can spill over into larger media. It truly depends upon the site. If the site has something to offer other than access to the company or self-promotion it contains value. Most business are IN business, not because they provide a service. The guy down the street can provide the same one. However, they provide a value that makes them distinct. Whether its price, selection, quality, confidence, or comfort. Sites that offer something to the net may draw attention to themselves. Self-generating promotion. It may trigger a word of mouth or print media reaction. For instance a site about a general contractor might offer information about the process of building your own home. Tips, helpful guidelines, etc. If well done and informative it may warrant a magazine or local newspaper to mention it. Print Media is always looking for way to mention the "internet" buzzword. I know this is possible since it happened with me. The net is naturally attracted to sites which offer something. It is built into the nature. I seldom visit "sales sites" unless I actually WANT to do business with them. Royal Frazier
Response:
Steve, Hi, just read your response to biz on the web – you’re exactly right. I do Internet Marketing and will only work for companies that truley have a clear objective for being on the web. You can make money on the web – strengthen brand equity, reach new markets…I see it everyday. For the right company, product etc. it will be an essential part of their future. I know exactly what you mean about rejecting clients/work because they just "want to be on the web." In marketing – ok, they sold the pet rock, but on the net, people aren’t stupid and you can’t sell them snake oil. I love working on the net though – it’s by far the most challenging, fascinating industry I’ve been in. There are a lot of really bright people out there – the speed of the competition is thrilling…. Best of luck to you! Julianne
Response:
> Why don’t you people get down to some real business topics instead of > jumping on the Web band wagon?
I can understand your attitude, because all the hype and exagerations do mask the real business potential of the ‘net (not just the web, of course). But the web does have a lot to offer for real business (which is about making money): - Search costs and response times are much smaller than for most conventional channels. This is at the same time good and bad for the firms. The expansion of firms to the Internet is the topic of a paper by F. Zettelmeier which shows that the entry strategy is dependent on the current channel strategy of the firm. - Word-of-mouth, something that marketers always assumed to be a function of some peer groups with some geographic constraints, has become a) global and b) expert. You can find advice (good and bad) and reports of usage experience much faster. There are several other effects (I happen to like these two because they are research topics for people I know). The problem is that most principles of business still hold as opposed to the positions sometimes represented by Web advocates. — Becoming a psychotic improves the well-being of a neurotic. http://web.mit.edu/camoes/public/home.html (617)253-3198 Fax:258-7597
Response:
: Unfortunately, there are many companies who wish to perpetuate the myth : that the web is the greatest thing since sliced bread for *every* : company in the world. We have a whole host of file folders of firms : with whom we have spoken and, after extensive analysis, have determined : that they do not need a web site. I’ve probably turned down $200,000 : worth of design and hosting fees because it is not in the best interest : of the client to have a web site. Which types of company cannot benefit from having a web site? : The discussion of when not to have a site is just as important as the : resolution that one *does* need a site and how that site should be : designed, constructed, and what specific functionality needs to be : included. And what so many design firms and hosting services do not : offer at all is how to use a web site in conjunction with other : advertising once the decision has been made to construct one. Too : often, firms are left twisting in the wind as their web site sits there : and does absolutely nothing. That is bad… Yes, too often firms are greatly disappointed by the results of their web site. I would argue that this is generally due to poor publicity rather than because of an unsuitability to the web. We’ve all seen great web sites which help us order a company’s products, re-inforce a brand or achieve some other target. Any business could have a web site which would do this. It is frequently argued that companies selling to local customers cannot gain from a web site. Whilst I do accept that some convenience shops (newsagents, for example) would be ill-advised to have a web site, I believe many web marketers over-state this and suggest all businesses with a local focus are unsuited for the web. Why? If I set up a local-oriented web site which adds value to my business and gives consumers something they want all I need to do is promote this site effectively. Promotion via the Internet itself would be silly; I should focus my promotion efforts on my local area. What sort of business (other than the case I cited above) do you believe would not benefit from having a well-thought-out web presence? Tom — Web Development Resources: Learn about HTML, CGI, Java, ActiveX, VRML, HTTP, Web Graphics and more!
Response:
> Why don’t you people get down to some real business topics instead of > jumping on the Web band wagon?
Sorry, I guess that Dell selling $1m of product per *day* off their web site and Cisco selling $75m of product in the first five months of web operation aren’t "real business". Just to help me, could you enlighten me on what "real business topics" are ? How about "steam engine design" ? <g> Regards, Chris Barling Actinic Software – helping small business to sell across the net
Response:
> It is frequently argued that companies selling to local customers cannot > gain from a web site. Whilst I do accept that some convenience shops > (newsagents, for example) would be ill-advised to have a web site,
Even that argument is not necessarily true. I host a set of pages for a friend who owns a local convenience store, and he seems to think they are doing nicely for him. He changes the specials and offers every two weeks, and is starting to get people not only mentioning the site, but printing out the coupons and redeeming them. The pages, if you want to look at them for an example, are at http://www.virtualbusiness.net/convenient Note : I do not have any connection with this site financially, nor does it connect directly to my personal site. Might be interesting for the small businesses that want to see how one local shop is using the web. Paul — VirtualBusiness.News - Free *Weekly* Small Business Newsletter
Response:
> Which types of company cannot benefit from having a web site? > It is frequently argued that companies selling to local customers cannot > gain from a web site. Whilst I do accept that some convenience shops > (newsagents, for example) would be ill-advised to have a web site, I > believe many web marketers over-state this and suggest all businesses > with a local focus are unsuited for the web. Why? > If I set up a local-oriented web site which adds value to my business > and gives consumers something they want all I need to do is promote this > site effectively. Promotion via the Internet itself would be silly; I > should focus my promotion efforts on my local area. What sort of business > (other than the case I cited above) do you believe would not benefit from > having a well-thought-out web presence?
First of all, the type of business you cite above represents the vast majority of all businesses in the United States. So in terms of raw numbers, and by your own example, there are far more businesses who even you would agree would not need a web presence. But let’s get a bit more specific… Well, there are many businesses that will not be served well by a web site. For instance, a bailbond operation or a service which cashes checks in an inner city. Both of those operations cater to very low income individuals who do not own computers. The same can be said for any business, whether it be a restaurant, grocery, clothing store or other retail outlet, or service that again caters to a low-income population. I am very hard-pressed to figure out the advantage of a local drycleaner who serves a limited territory, but let’s extend that to include any business that caters to an extremely limited and well-defined clientele. For instance, take a company whose exclusive purpose is to provide a specific product for a single limited industry such as the automobile manufacturing industry. All their potential clients know about them and already use their services. In a similiar vein, what of professional practicioners like physicians, dentists, accountants, or lawyers who are no longer taking on new clients? OK, well maybe there are no lawyers who will not take on new clients, but you get the idea. :) Another broad category of business would be small, non-professional operations like lawn services, in-house hair stylists, or others that rely heavily ort exclusively on word-of-mouth promotion. The same could be said of flea market presenters who make a very good living by travelling the flea market circuit. And don’t think this absurd, but there is an enormous underground economy of things that are on the fringe of legality or patently illegal that spend advertising dollars in their own way, but obviously would not be served well by the web. I think of speakeasy’s, drug operations, and automobile chop shops. And yes, they do spend dollars to advertise (it *does* cost money to have someone stand on the street corner and advertise ones illegal wares.) There is, however, another category of legitimate business to consider – that of the commodity bulk markets whose existence does not rely on a brand-name identification. Take lumber for example. A mill may supply lumber to the various lumber yards, and maybe they might even want an abbreviated web presence, but I have seen way too many instances where such businesses have been coerced into spending tens of thousands of dollars (or more) on sites that are complete overkill. I see that problem as even worse than some design con-artist who sells a small web site to someone who does not need one at all. Steve Crisp PagePlop Web Hosting Service http://www.pageplop.com
Response:
Hi, I am writing a study about Business on the internet – booking systems, payment possibilities, Security topics like sending credit card information over the net etc … Is there a newsgroup or webpages which fous on this topic? I focus on Germany, but I am also interested on good examples about what is possible in the US (you guys are miles ahead, I know) and other countries Any ideas, suggestions etc… are highly welcome. thanks a lot for your help. Mike Sinn carpe diem — carpe diem
Response:
> I am writing a study about Business on the internet – booking systems, > payment possibilities, Security topics like sending credit card information > over the net etc … > Any ideas, suggestions etc… are highly welcome.
There are a couple of serious (as opposed to fluff) books on electronic commerce. The one I would recomend most is the Malone and Allen book. — This post represents only the opinions of one of my personalities. http://web.mit.edu/camoes/public/home.html (617)253-3198 Fax:258-7597
Response:
> I am writing a study about Business on the internet – booking systems, > payment possibilities, Security topics like sending credit card information >over the net etc .. Is there a newsgroup or webpages which fous on this topic?
Check out the following site: http://homepages.tig.com.au/~mstager The site contains links to marketing related resources and research that has been done in the area of electronic commerce. Please let me know if you find additional links that should be listed.
Response:
Why don’t you people get down to some real business topics instead of jumping on the Web band wagon?
Response:
> Why don’t you people get down to some real business topics instead of > jumping on the Web band wagon?
Because the World Wide Web is a very effective business tool when used properly. Indeed, the use of the web, in conjunction with traditional methods of marketing and advertising, can substantially increase a firm’s business. Unfortunately, there are many companies who wish to perpetuate the myth that the web is the greatest thing since sliced bread for *every* company in the world. We have a whole host of file folders of firms with whom we have spoken and, after extensive analysis, have determined that they do not need a web site. I’ve probably turned down $200,000 worth of design and hosting fees because it is not in the best interest of the client to have a web site. The discussion of when not to have a site is just as important as the resolution that one *does* need a site and how that site should be designed, constructed, and what specific functionality needs to be included. And what so many design firms and hosting services do not offer at all is how to use a web site in conjunction with other advertising once the decision has been made to construct one. Too often, firms are left twisting in the wind as their web site sits there and does absolutely nothing. That is bad… Steve Crisp PagePlop Web Hosting Service PagePlan Web Design Service http://www.pageplop.com http://www.pageplan.com
Response:
:> Why don’t you people get down to some real business topics instead of :> jumping on the Web band wagon? [Answered in another post] : Because the World Wide Web is a very effective business tool when used properly. : Indeed, the use of the web, in conjunction with traditional methods of marketing : and advertising, can substantially increase a firm’s business. And logistics, and payment schedules, and planning and control, and all other business principles which still apply (most of them). : Unfortunately, there are many companies who wish to perpetuate the myth that the : web is the greatest thing since sliced bread for *every* company in the world. : We have a whole host of file folders of firms with whom we have spoken and, : after extensive analysis, have determined that they do not need a web site. I’ve : probably turned down $200,000 worth of design and hosting fees because it is not : in the best interest of the client to have a web site. Very brave for you (because it’s true) but bad business . You should charge them consulting fees in excess of what they would pay you, because you saved them that money plus the losses that they were going to incurr (yes, I was a lean mean money making machine, but then I liked money). JC (0000-0033) — Becoming a psychotic improves the well-being of a neurotic. http://web.mit.edu/camoes/public/home.html (617)253-3198 Fax:258-7597