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ATKINS CENTER – NYC
Question:
: In regard to your question about whether Atkins is alternative or : holistic: The Atkins approach is called complimentary medicine : (rather than alternative) because it supposedly combines various : modalities of treatment with the conventional use of medicines, : drugs, chemotherapy, etc. (I trust that I have represented it : correctly and not oversimplified or distorted it.) The term ‘compl_e_mentary medicine’ is meant to imply that it can be used as an adjunct to conventional therapy. ‘Alternative’ implies that the system is a standalone. In the case of East-Asian Traditional Healing, which I practice, both terms are appropriate. Complimentary medicine is the coinage that is probably to be preferred, however, since the term alternative implies that patients should not use conventional therapy when needed–which is a misconception. In the context of this newsgroup, though, it points to the very obvious fact in the United States and the West that healing alternatives are sorely missing from the often repressive, condescending medical options offered by conventional medicine.
Response:
Many thanks for your detailed response and your advice. Several questions: The idea that "healing begins in the mind": What is the basis for this statement? Is there any substantiation for it? How does it apply to infants, for examples, or to people who are what is called mentally-challenged? (I think that is the proper term for what we used to call retarded.) How do you define mind? I mean, what do you mean by mind? The thought process? Attitudes? Various brain activities? How does "healing begins in the mind" apply to animals? Do animals also get diseases because the connection between body, mind and spirit is faulty? What is meant by spirit? Do you use it in the religious sense of the word? Is the same as soul? How does the holistic practioner determine the condition of someone’s spirit? Is it an objective determination or is it an intuitive perception? Or something else? Does the mind have control over the spirit? What is the pathway or the means of communication between mind and spirit? How does the practioner determine when the "body, mind and spirit" are appropriately connected? Is there a belief system supporting the cause of disease that you describe? How can one know if it is an accurate representation of the truth? In earlier times, it was believed that, for example, leprosy was an act of God; other diseases were punishment for violating laws of nature or the laws of God; in the middle ages, disease was an invasion by an evil spirit. I have not done a study of belief systems regarding disease, so these are simply a few that come to mind. I cite them because these superstitious ideas eventually crumbled under their own weight. In regard to your question about whether Atkins is alternative or holistic: The Atkins approach is called complimentary medicine (rather than alternative) because it supposedly combines various modalities of treatment with the conventional use of medicines, drugs, chemotherapy, etc. (I trust that I have represented it correctly and not oversimplified or distorted it.) Please let me hear your response to the questions that I bring. I appreciate your concern for my friend. My best wishes. A.Morgan
Response:
writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Many thanks for your detailed response and your advice. >Several questions: The idea that "healing begins in the mind": What is the >basis for this statement? Is there any substantiation for it? How does it >apply to infants, for examples, or to people who are what is called >mentally-challenged? (I think that is the proper term for what we used to >call retarded.) How do you define mind? I mean, what do you mean by mind? >The thought process? Attitudes? Various brain activities? How does >"healing begins in the mind" apply to animals? Do animals also get diseases >because the connection between body, mind and spirit is faulty? >What is meant by spirit? Do you use it in the religious sense of the word? > Is the same as soul? How does the holistic practioner determine the >condition of someone’s spirit? Is it an objective determination or is it an >intuitive perception? Or something else? Does the mind have control over >the spirit? What is the pathway or the means of communication between mind >and spirit? >How does the practioner determine when the "body, mind and spirit" are >appropriately connected? >Is there a belief system supporting the cause of disease that you describe? > How can one know if it is an accurate representation of the truth? In >earlier times, it was believed that, for example, leprosy was an act of >God; other diseases were punishment for violating laws of nature or the >laws of God; in the middle ages, disease was an invasion by an evil spirit. > I have not done a study of belief systems regarding disease, so these are >simply a few that come to mind. I cite them because these superstitious >ideas eventually crumbled under their own weight. >In regard to your question about whether Atkins is alternative or holistic: >The Atkins approach is called complimentary medicine (rather than >alternative) because it supposedly combines various modalities of treatment >with the conventional use of medicines, drugs, chemotherapy, etc. (I trust >that I have represented it correctly and not oversimplified or distorted >it.) >Please let me hear your response to the questions that I bring. I >appreciate your concern for my friend. >My best wishes. >A.Morgan
Dear A., Thank you for your response. Your questions have reminded me of what I take for granted. The pathway to health can be complex or very simple depending on the individual. I have learned to call it an adventure in consciousness. We must think of the body, mind, and spirit as one. They do not function seperately, but are always inter-connected. Spirit is the "force" within us, mind is the builder, and the physical is the result. I hope that that statement does not confuse you. I only mean to somehow illustrate the connection between the three. Wholism in its truest form. The physical part is basically easy to understand. A person suffers from some illness and manifests the symptoms of that illness. Conventional methods will diagnos and treat the symptoms. Simple. The holistic practictioner will see the illness as a result of an imbalance. They will treat the physical body of course, to regenerate. It may be done through many different means ie., accupressure, homeopathy etc. The more natural the treatments, the better the response because they are not adding to the burden of the body by using synthetic drugs etc. There are times however that the holistic doctor needs to use both conventional methods along with natural. You wouldn’t take a person who has taken medications for seizures off that med abruptly and introduce a natural substitution. That would be dangerous. They would work with the best methods to try to bring the body to better functioning. So now we have a course of action for the body. So what about the mind? What is going on in the life of that person (patient)? Have they just had a nasty divorce? Have they suffered from some emotional trauma? Has there been anything in the recent past of that person that could have brought down the normal functioning of the body? We have all heard that stress is responsible for many diseases. This then, defines "mind" as nearly as I can put it. Healing of the mind then begins with the acknowledgement that the events in ones life could lead to the breakdown of the bodily forces. This could also be applied to infants and animals alike. If we are a product of our mental environment then we are also capable of passing that force on to another living thing. This may be stretching it but consider this; a normal, healthy infant suddenly developes a severe ear infection. When the parents of the infant are asked about any change of events in their lives they comment that they have been having screaming matches for the past month and have filed for seperation. Is it possible that the child’s balance has been upset. I think so. Do you remember a book about the secret life of plants? It showed a connection to how a plant was raised, if the caretaker talked sweetly to it and even the music that was in the environment and how that plant either flourished or died. What is meant by spirit? Spirit is the force, the life essense. When the spirit has been neglected it suffers too. Spirit has really nothing to do with religion and a holistic prac. cannot determine the health of the spirit only that it relates to the order of things (including mind and body. I could go on about this. Mind can control the spirit in a sense, if the life force or willingness to continue to live fade, then the will of the mind has forced the spirit to die. If you want to get into the religious part of this, then God may have something to do with the miraculous healing of a person and the person will live despite their will to die. That is I guess, a matter of personal belief. Could it be that God had other plans for this entity and their purpose for this sojourn on this earth is not finished. Many people believe that we have a purpose for our existance – this is part of spirit. What is the pathway between mind and spirit? Can we get in touch with spirit. Many believe we can. Meditation is one method that people believe that spirit can speak if only we allow ourselves the quiet to do it. All-in-all my friend, we are all in this life to learn lessons and as some believe, to become closer to God or whatever we call the supreme. I believe that illness is a part of that – so is healing. We all have to have some path out of the body unless you know of some immortal being bee-bopping around. Wouldn’t having to deal with a serious illness be as much as an education to the being as any other life experience? Would not dealing with our life experience cause the body harm holistically? I think so. I tend to be wordy …forgive me if this bothers you. All the very best to you… Nancy
Response:
There has to be a cheaper way of doing the same thing.
Response:
writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has first (or second hand) >experience with treatment at the Atkins Center for Complimentary Medicine >in New York City. I am also interested in hearing your opinions, insights, >etc. >My friend is being urged to get treatment there for a form of slow >progression leukemia (CLL) for which no medical treatment is recommended >until she is in some much later stage, perhaps 5, 10 or more years down the >line. >In his radio program, Atkins claims to have treated 25 CLL patients and >effected a lowered white blood count in almost all of them. Yet, when you >call his center, no statistics are made available. The new patient liaison >person insists that no studies are performed. "Not inquiring about >studies" says my friend. "Simply want some documentation on how many >patients have been treated for this disease, how many have been helped and >to what extent they have been helped and what is their status "x" years >after." >My friend is told that no such information is available and is offered >instead vague comments and testimonial stories. My friend is advised to >come for a consulation. >Atkins said on one his radio program that his treatments are better than >conventional treatment. When my friend ask the new patient liaison person >why he makes this statement if he has no statistics, she avoids the >question. >"Better" my friend says, "is a comparative term. In order to say that >something is * better *, you have to make comparisons – implying that you >have two sets of data to compare." >The reply is that the patient *feels" better with Atkins treatment because >there are no toxic side-effects. >Is this a word-game or what? >Treatment, she is told, may go on for a number of years, at approximately >$25,000 per year (not covered by most insurance companies.) Treatment, she >is told will consist of vitamins, herbs, glandular extracts and other >modalities and might also include low doses of conventional chemotherapy. >So, if you have any comments, we are all ears. >Many thanks.
It is obvious that your friend is looking for validity and proof. I’m fairly certain that she will not find statistical proof in any alternative treatment center. The basis of true holistic healing comes from consulting the "physician within ". A true holistic practictioner will not misguide someone by telling them that their method of treatment heals that condition. I may be confused about the Atkins center….are they selling their services as alternative or holistic? There is a difference. Many clinics around the country ( and in other countries as well ) lay claim to astounding healings, but in truth may have no greater effect than the person who may try conventional methods. Healing begins in the mind. The holistic course of action would involve treating body, mind and spirit simultaneously. Consider this: if you treat just the symptoms is it logical that in time the condition could become healed? Yes. But how long will the healing last? That is crisis healing – natural or conventional. One must find support for the emotions ( mind), as well as the spirit. The mind must become responsive to healing and that is done through rest and relaxation and reduction of stress. A relaxed body is more responsive to healing. The spirit must come to terms with life and death – does the person being treated have a reason to live? Do they want to? Have they given up? When you look at the big picture in holistic healing you must look for a physician or practitioner that says they do not heal anyone. They guide through the use of their knowledge only – healing comes from within. When the body, mind and spirit connection have been made, then the changes of complete recovery are high. My suggestion is this. I believe that your friend should check around and try to find a place where they will treat holistically. I would suggest that she call the A.R.E. Clinic in Phoenix. They have a 7 and an 11 day residential program that will address all her needs. They will give her the tools to work with and to continue working with when she goes back home. They don’t rely on repeat business. Your friend will receive massages, private counseling, workshops and lectures, and lots of other services provided by a loving and caring staff. She won’t find that they keep statistics there either because they believe that everyone receives healing as individually as your fingerprints. I’ve never been a real believer in statistics especially after I worked for a firm that did it. Data is unreliable. It is done by humans and humans make mistakes. I have a number for your friend to call if she cares to : (602)955-0551. I hope that this has helped. I know that the A.R.E. can help because I have been helped by them, my daughter has, and I have had a 10 year relationship with them. I wish you and your friend all the best…..
Response:
I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has first (or second hand) experience with treatment at the Atkins Center for Complimentary Medicine in New York City. I am also interested in hearing your opinions, insights, etc. My friend is being urged to get treatment there for a form of slow progression leukemia (CLL) for which no medical treatment is recommended until she is in some much later stage, perhaps 5, 10 or more years down the line. In his radio program, Atkins claims to have treated 25 CLL patients and effected a lowered white blood count in almost all of them. Yet, when you call his center, no statistics are made available. The new patient liaison person insists that no studies are performed. "Not inquiring about studies" says my friend. "Simply want some documentation on how many patients have been treated for this disease, how many have been helped and to what extent they have been helped and what is their status "x" years after." My friend is told that no such information is available and is offered instead vague comments and testimonial stories. My friend is advised to come for a consulation. Atkins said on one his radio program that his treatments are better than conventional treatment. When my friend ask the new patient liaison person why he makes this statement if he has no statistics, she avoids the question. "Better" my friend says, "is a comparative term. In order to say that something is * better *, you have to make comparisons – implying that you have two sets of data to compare." The reply is that the patient *feels" better with Atkins treatment because there are no toxic side-effects. Is this a word-game or what? Treatment, she is told, may go on for a number of years, at approximately $25,000 per year (not covered by most insurance companies.) Treatment, she is told will consist of vitamins, herbs, glandular extracts and other modalities and might also include low doses of conventional chemotherapy. So, if you have any comments, we are all ears. Many thanks.
Response:
Your knowledge of the Atkins Center and Dr. Atkins is quite limited and distorted. All of what you guess at is wrong. His techniques are also used by many other doctors and not his exclusively. Are you a part of the Quack Busters group? George
Response:
> Your knowledge of the Atkins Center and Dr. Atkins is quite limited and > distorted. All of what you guess at is wrong. His techniques are also > used by many other doctors and not his exclusively. Are you a part of the > Quack Busters group?
Presumably this is intended for me? Nothing I said was a guess, it’s all a matter of public record, George. Read the papers… sdb —
Response:
(GeorgeD496) writes: > Your knowledge of the Atkins Center and Dr. Atkins is quite limited and > distorted. All of what you guess at is wrong. His techniques are also > used by many other doctors and not his exclusively. Are you a part of the > Quack Busters group? > Presumably this is intended for me? Nothing I said was a guess, it’s > all a matter of public record, George. Read the papers…
Gosh, I read the papers and I still can’t decide if OJ did it or not. I’m certain that you have though. — O for that moment to be now Or better yet be recent past And we sit as children on the beach Laughing at how long it took to pass -Czap