Business History Books » Business Consultant » When is enough enough?
When is enough enough?
Question:
Many of you may know me from participating in various on-line email lists. If so, you have probably run across my recent posts about Microsoft’s decision to boot people off their Expedia Web site for not buying often enough. Here, in part, is what I said: An article appeared in USA Today called "Web sites kick out airfare window shoppers", "Internet travel services are trying to make more room for "bookers" by pushing out the lookers." It is about a Microsoft site called Expedia Web site. Microsoft has taken the hard line of instantly canceling the accounts of those who request too many fare quotes without buying an airline ticket. Microsoft say that "if a lot of people use the site without buying, it saps system resources and can make it slower." I couldn’t applaud this decision more! That decision will be viewed as controversial to people who like to browse and don’t buy. Or for those who price shop to get the absolute lowest price even if it means putting lots and lots of small businesses out of business. Now, let me follow THAT up with a marketing example: At some point in time, a merchant has to decide where to draw the line. I have been in business 20 years and as you know much of the population can and will ask for help without ever intending to buy. They ARE comparison shopping (which I do, too) but they have no intention of buying. They use the comparison to beat down the merchant they already have a relationship with. Consider this. You request a catalog from me. You don’t order. That’s ok. I send you a second, third and fourth and you still don’t order. Who is paying the cost for this? I need to raise prices to customers who do buy to cover the costs of this marketing to you. At some point I have to decide it is not fair to the customers I have to charge them more to market to you. That is just business. Now, some of the feed back I have gotten has been "interesting" to say the least. It appears that because this is MICORSOFT doing this, it’s a bad thing. After all, we hate Bill Gates (them talking, not me- I haven’t yet met the man), so it must be wrong because his company is doing it. Also, I have been accused of being "non-female" if I don’t browse AND I want to take away the rights of those who like to browse. Let me say something- Personally, I hate to browse. But I have no problem with people browsing. My challenge lies with determining when it’s time to cut your losses with a specfic "potential" client. We all have to make that choice. So let’s pretend Micosoft ISN’T the company that did this. Let’s say MY firm did. I would like to discuss when "enough is enough". – Nancy Roebke — Learn to Network! Increase income, cut costs, and put an end to cold calling. Get our FREE series of articles that teach you the secrets
Response:
I think most people will agree with any rule IF they are posted up front for people to see BEFORE they accept an offer. I have not followed this thread so I may be out of context but I sense a valid emotional reaction to the rules of the game being changed to suit the needs of one side (namely Microsoft). If this premise holds, then I would argue your position on defending Microsoft’s right to do what it is doing. Does Microsoft clearly post on it’s site the conditions under whcich it will suspend your account? This situation has many elements in common with why AOL is hated by so many…… AOL makes many promises ….. and arbitrarily changes the rules to suit it’s own personal gain. Not what I would call a fair business transaction. Consumers in the U.S.A. should learn from the Europeans (especially the Scandinavians) and the Japanese on receiving full value for what they paid for. J.P. Solyom
Response:
Nancy Let me see what your view is on this. Just something else which I understood from your message. What do you think? | …. those | who price shop to get the absolute lowest price even if it means | putting lots and lots of small businesses out of business. | | …… They ARE | comparison shopping (which I do, too) but they have no intention | of buying. They use the comparison to beat down the merchant | they already have a relationship with. This type of argument blames the people for trying to be sensible. Same as the *shopkeeper* who tries to offer the lowest price or the best bargain which no other *shopkeeper* can beat. So what’s the difference? I mean, are you blaming people? They are trying to do what is natural, it is survival. You do it. I try to learn from you so that I can do it. We all hope to do it. Are you asking people not to survive, so that only shopkeepers can survive? Is this the main reasoning behind this argument? You’re implying: ‘people be stupid, so that shopkeepers can make money’. Why not say: ’shopkeepers don’t try to compete with each other because you will suffer at the end when everyone finds out your tricks’. Let’s imagine that I own a business and thousands and thousands of people crowd my business, but only a few actually buy from me. What would you suggest I should do? Options: Shout at people for coming to see my business and ask them all to get out. Or, sit back for a minute and say: wait a minute guys, what’s going on here? Other businesses are desperate to bring in people for a demo, in my case it’s the other way round. Millions of people come but little sale. Let’s find out why they’re leaving without buying? Some are price shopping, some are quality shopping, others don’t like the look of me, some think they get better service next door and so on. Which types I would like to hang on to and serve? Can I segment their requirements? Now imagine I do a lot of things to change my approach. I divide their needs, I target, I decide on the offers. Suddenly, right across the road from me a huge business opens and starts giving my type of products away for free! This is actually not that unusual say in software. Big boys giving products away free, squeezing the smaller operators. So, effectively my start up marketing needs escalate over- night. I cannot compete and close down. Whose fault was it? The people, or the competition? I just wrote this to find out about your view. You may fully agree or disagree with me. Just curious. I have seen big business following the ‘people are stupid’ approach with disastrous consequences. Best wishes Archie Gatekeeper: ‘My friend Archie, who lives here, is a good man. To speak with him you will need to know that, [com uk arde dear co demon net] is [T E C H D O G]. All good people can find archie at C.O.D.E’
Response:
| … "if a lot of people use the site without buying, it | saps system resources and can make it slower." Hello Nancy I am not familiar with this story. The first thing that I thought when I read this part of your message was, ’wow, how come that company didn’t complain about people browsing for their free internet software? What’s different about this one then?’ I neither like or dislike the company. Just my curiosity. The other part of your message, reminded me of the series of messages regarding the sales email list, which was discussed by Paul and John and others. Basically, what you’re saying is that window shoppers are crowding the shop, not allowing the buyers to get through. So what’s different about this from any other business or shop on the high street? You, quite rightly, say that it would be up to the shop owner to restrict admission to her shop. Yes, no question about it. It is the shop owner’s choice. But, when I hear someone saying this: | At some point I have to decide it is not fair to the customers. somehow, it makes me feel uneasy, almost suspicious of the person, ie the shop keeper. Of course I don’t mean you, you know, I’m talking general now. I fully understand that a small shopkeeper has to struggle to get through the crowd to bring in the buyers, but somehow a company like that, with that type of marketing track record, at times giving cash away up-front, makes me suspicious. OK, they don’t have to waste money all the time, and they are entitled to their own view same as a shop- keeper, but I think it smells a touch hypocritical when seen as part of their overall marketing strategy. Do we actually know how much extra it’s costing them compared with the revenue generated in this particular case? I really don’t know. Just my personal view. I’m still thinking about this. Best wishes Archie Gatekeeper: ‘My friend Archie, who lives here, is a good man. To speak with him you will need to know that, [com uk arde dear co demon net] is [T E C H D O G]. All good people can find archie at C.O.D.E’
Response:
[Snip: Microsoft acts like a real marketer, for a change, and applies some database marketing 101 to one of their commercial sites.] > I couldn’t applaud this decision more!
Too simplistic. There are far better ways to manage capacity usage. One could envision simply changing access priorities as a function of past behavior and current system congestion, just like pull-based financial services marketing organizations currently do. But that requires a little thought. (And Bayesian tobit models.) > That decision will be viewed as > controversial to people who like to browse and don’t buy.
And by people who know about congestion management, consumer behavior vis-a-vis search goods, and goodwill management. Not that it is a wrong decision, but it is too simplistic. > Or for those who price shop to get the absolute lowest price
Also known as price-sensitive buyers, a large portion of the population, which require management, not exclusion. A lot of money can be made in these segments. But that, also, requires thought. > even if it means putting lots and lots of small businesses out of business.
Not the buyer’s problem. > Now, let me follow THAT up with a marketing example:
The Microsoft story IS a marketing example. JC (0000-0033) — http://web.mit.edu/camoes/public/
Response:
>I think most people will agree with any rule IF they are posted up front >for people to see BEFORE they accept an offer.
>Consumers in the U.S.A. should learn from the Europeans (especially the >Scandinavians) and the Japanese on receiving full value for what they paid >for. >J.P. Solyom
Just what part of this service was "paid for?" I find it difficult to feel cheated for being denied a FREE service.
Response:
writes: <snip> >My challenge lies with determining when it’s time to cut your losses >with a specfic "potential" client. We all have to make that choice. So >let’s pretend Micosoft ISN’T the company that did this. Let’s say MY >firm did. I would like to discuss when "enough is enough".
Hello, Nancy, nice topic for discussion 
Thank you. We run into this situation frequently when a potential client says – "I want to think about ti, call me next week" and when you call next week, "…call me next week", etc. Each time they say they are interested and give some excuse why they can’t make a decision today. Two quick thoughts on this: 1) IMHO some of these are not real prospects, but they are too shy/scared/nice/ ect. to just say they are not interested. They were never real prospects and the sooner you filter these out the sooner you stop wasting their time and yours. 2) We have a lot of prospects to work with. We just can’t afford to continue to pursue someone like this indefinitely. Therefore, when it seems like the "call me next week" or similar syndrome has set in, I would suggest you ask them for a definitive decistion – yest or no – to close it out. Again, if they say no, they may have never been a prospect. What do the rest of you think? Hope this helps, – Michael S. DeVries *****B&B*****B&B*****B&B*****T$*****T$******T$*****T$****** Michael S. & N. Lynnetta DeVries The Mansion in Tradebank of Eastern Alabama Historic Talladega B&B NEW BUSINESS GUARANTEED! http://www.cris.com/~Devries http://www.cris.com/~Devries/tradebank.html *****B&B*****B&B*****B&B*****T$*****T$******T$*****T$******
Response:
Eastern >writes: ><snip> >2) We have a lot of prospects to work with. We just can’t afford to >continue to pursue someone like this indefinitely. Therefore, when it seems >like the "call me next week" or similar syndrome has set in, I would suggest >you ask them for a definitive decistion – yest or no – to close it out. >Again, if they say no, they may have never been a prospect. >What do the rest of you think? >Hope this helps, >- Michael S. DeVries
This is bad advice, IMHO. Just like every picture tells a story, every contact/prospect can be a client. What you have established with the "please call next week" is a dialog with the potential client. You should nurture this. It is important. You don’t KNOW FOR SURE what will happen next week or what is going on internally at the prospect’s office. And maybe the prospect is telling you that you have not closed the sale properly (I spend a lot of time in my book on closing techniques for consultants.) Don’t cast off the "call again" prospects. If you are persistant, sooner or later you will convert them to a client….or you will get a referal through them. [possible e-mail from your "call again" prospect to a friend: "Jack, in answer to your question about a consultnat, we’ve been in touch with a Susan Jones. We have not used her as I can’t seem to get the funding for this project streghtened out. However she calls us each week and I can only assume that if she gets a project she will finish it. I like persistance. You might try her. Her number is 555-1234. Let’s have lunch next week and I’ll tell you about…." Alan Canton Programmer/Consultant (VB, Java, Delphi) Author Mr. Bulsari: You are in a niche market, as best as I can understand. I don’t know your geographical mareket but here are two things I might try. 1. While your current clients may or may not refer you, you can take the bull by the horns and simply ask your clients for the names of a few colleagues in similar companies who might use your services. Approach your clients with the idea that "can you help me build me business?" People like to be asked to help, but hate to be manipulated. When you get a few names, send some letters and follow them up with calls. "John Doe at Concentric Logic, a client of mine, told me that you might need resources such as xxxxxx. Can I send you some material?" Don’t push for a lunch meeting or an interview. Just start the dialog. The rest will follow in time. 2. Sit down a write a terrfic "white paper" on some topic related to your field. However, make sure it is something that the reader is not likely to find in their ususal trades (make it controversial if need by). And don’t hype yourself. This is not about you (yet). Pick 10 – 20 potential clients, find out exactly who to send it to (you can call and find out…the secretaries will give you names) and send it to them with a cover letter saying you are a consultant trying to expand your practice and that you thought they might be interested in this. Don’t say you will call and don’t ask them to call. (Remember, no minipulation…people hate that.) Two weeks later do this again. Then two weeks later again. Two weeks later again. What I’ve done as ask people to give me their opinion on the piece…if they have the time (I leave my e-mail address/ fax number). I don’t get many opinions, but all it takes is one to "start" a "dialog" and later a "relationship." If after four weeks you don’t have a few new clients either you are a terrible writer (hire a ghost if you can find one) or there is just no need for your service right now. Don’t be surprised if the call you get is from someone other than you sent the material. It’s word of mouth working for you: "Well Susan, I don’t know if this guy is any good, but I got a great "white paper" from him so you might give him a call. At least he knows how to market! How about lunch next week…I’ll tell you about Joe and …" I hope this helps. Alan N. Canton Programmer/Consultant (VB, Delphi, Java) Author ComputerMoney: Making It In High-Tech Consulting *All you ever needed to know about becoming a consultant* (Adams-Blake Pub., Fair Oaks, CA., $29.95, 320p,ISBN 1-883422-01-9, bookstores, libraries, or Visa/MC/AMEX 1-800-368-ADAM) The Silver Pen: Starting a Profitable Writing Business From a Lifetime of Experience – A Guide for Older People *Profit from your job, vocation, hobby, etc. in your own mini-writing biz* (Adams-Blake Pub., Fair Oaks, CA., $22.95, 380p, ISBN 1-883422-1-6, bookstores, libraries, or Visa/MC/AMEX 1-800-368-ADAM) — Adams-Blake Publishing http://www.adams-blake.com
Response:
(large snip for space and time) > Consider this. You request a catalog from me. You don’t order. That’s > ok. I send you a second, third and fourth and you still don’t order. Who > is paying the cost for this?
If you send me a catalog four times and I don’t order, then you should check your catalog and mailing copy. If shoppers ask about help many times and don’t buy, then you should check your salesmens/womens training and mental state towards selling. Orders are *sold* – they don’t just _come in_ … I experience it often to be hard to shop: I come in with a question and want to buy a product (but of course want to be sure to get the right thing – everybody wants always to be sure …) I get a lot of yadda-yadda-yadda-talk from the salesman and go out again more uncertain than I was. (I had to go 3 times into the shop to buy a mobile phone a while back. Finally I went in there and COMMANDED the sales guy to write down my order, he still said "are you sure? – We also have this modell … would you like to see it …") I took some sales-training when I started my own business and found out that customers like to be *helped* to make the buy. This does not only mean pushing them to the buy, it means giving information and then asking questions and taking actions that will overcome their uncertainness (uncertainty? excuse my bad english). Back to the web-site: > It is about a Microsoft site called Expedia Web site. Microsoft has > taken the hard line of instantly canceling the accounts of those who > request too many fare quotes without buying an airline ticket. > Microsoft say that "if a lot of people use the site without buying, it > saps system resources and can make it slower."
If the web-site does not *sell* the tickets enough than this means that customers did not get all their uncertainness removed and where looking somewhere else. Of course you are a big lot right about price shoppers in the flight business. Especially if a web-site is intended to give information for price comparison, they don’t have to be surprised to get people just comparing prices. But good marketing and selling copy should overcome this to some amount. And actually the text on a web-site should be considered *advertising copy*. Too often this is just something the www-techies hack in to fill the space around the animated-gifs. Why are people bashing Microsoft for this? Because Microsoft (or Bill Gates) is claimed to be a marketing wonder. Give that one a big laugh. All Microsoft marketing success boils down to the IBM decision to 1. bundle DOS with their PC and then 2. license the PC design. People see Microsoft pissing of (sorry for the bad word) customers and still earning a lot of money while they in their own business have to run and please their customers, hard working, and still don’t get that much dough. So you’re pretty right about the opinions would be different if it was your company doing this. … except for the *selling* thing I mentioned before. Regards, Sascha Find out more about this guy "Sascha Welter"? it’s on <http://www.access.ch/private-users/swelter/> … in english … und auf Deutsch POWER(book150)USERs, Dog, Business, QTVR and more …
Response:
>Just what part of this service was "paid for?" >I find it difficult to feel cheated for being denied a FREE service.
What would happen if Sears offered to sign me up "for free" to their special GOLD customer club without publishing any rules. Six months later they have a special GOLD member only special sale. I show up only to learn I do not qualify because I have not made a purchase within the past 30 days…… Would I have reason to be upset? ……. In my opinion yes because no rules were published up front…. Would I have legal recourse? I am not a lawyer but I wonder if a merchant is allowed to discriminate using unpublished (or arbitrary) criteria.
Response:
>Two quick thoughts on this: >1) IMHO some of these are not real prospects, but they are too >shy/scared/nice/ ect. to just say they are not interested. They were never >real prospects and the sooner you filter these out the sooner you stop >wasting their time and yours. >2) We have a lot of prospects to work with. We just can’t afford to >continue to pursue someone like this indefinitely. Therefore, when it seems >like the "call me next week" or similar syndrome has set in, I would suggest >you ask them for a definitive decistion – yest or no – to close it out. >Again, if they say no, they may have never been a prospect. >What do the rest of you think?
Sounds like the client is a tire-kicker, alright, but another take on the situation might be that the salesman is not really researching the client’s needs and making a convincing argument that their product is the best choice. Also, finding out more about the purchasing behaviour–who actually makes up the requisition, who actually has approval, is there money in the budget, what is the planning cycle (when is the capital plan set?), etc. might help remove blocks. Closing the sale is a particular skill not everyone has, maybe you need to hand the prospect over to a closing specialist. Try a fax-back order form with a very limited-time promotion? Anyway, it seems to me that the problem is not prospects that don’t place orders, but that the salesperson does not know why they don’t place orders. Just my opinion. Doug