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Tube sound characteristics ???
Question:
This question I have has to do with pre-amp tubes and guitar processors. Do pre-amp tubes (12AX7 series) vary in sound characteristics, between the different brands or grades? If so, is there a tube that would produce a mellower, smoother, or milkier sound?? Or are the differences so slight, that I really won’t hear any big differences?? I have been doing some tube sound comparisons on a tube equipped Guitar Processor I have (DigiTech RP-7) it has one Sovtek 12AX7WA in it. I do not know tubes. I hear talk about how a Groove tube sounds better than a Sovtek, but they in fact may be the same tube because all Groove does is test and put their names on the tubes that meet their specs. Is this correct?? I guess Sovtek also has different grades of tubes too. I have a Sovtek 12AX7WA and a Sovtek 12AX7WB, and to me, these two tubes do sound a little different from one another. The WA a little louder and brighter. I even dug out an old 1960 Silvertone 12AX7 and tried it, and to me it sounded less loud and bright than the WA but more loud and bright than the WB. I appreciate any and all suggestion and comments. Thank you
Response:
>This question I have has to do with pre-amp tubes and >guitar processors. >Do pre-amp tubes (12AX7 series) vary in sound characteristics, > between the different brands or grades?
Yes. >If so, is there a tube that would produce a >mellower, smoother, or milkier sound?? >Or are the differences so slight, that I really won’t hear >any big differences??
The tube that has such a sound in one device will have a totally different sound in another device. You can get the nifty curves from the manufacturer, and, knowing the circuit, make a good guess at the headroom and the coloration, but it’s still only a guess. >I have been doing some tube sound comparisons on a tube >equipped Guitar Processor I have (DigiTech RP-7) it has one >Sovtek 12AX7WA in it. >I do not know tubes. I hear talk about how a Groove tube sounds >better than a Sovtek, but they in fact may be the same tube >because all Groove does is test and put their names on the >tubes that meet their specs. Is this correct??
Well, since Groove Tubes is no longer really in business as far as I can tell, this is academic. But yes, GT selected and graded commercial tubes, and they sold particular grades for particular applications. >I guess Sovtek also has different grades of tubes too. >I have a Sovtek 12AX7WA and a Sovtek 12AX7WB, >and to me, these two tubes do sound a little different from >one another. The WA a little louder and brighter.
These are actually different tube designs internally, not just different grades of the same design. But it’s true that the tone could differ between different grades of the same design depending on what it was selected for. >I even dug out an old 1960 Silvertone 12AX7 >and tried it, and to me it sounded less loud and bright >than the WA but more loud and bright than the WB.
Yup, and if you plotted a grid/plate characteristic curve you’d see a difference, too. –scott — "C’est un Nagra. C’est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This question I have has to do with pre-amp tubes and >guitar processors. >Do pre-amp tubes (12AX7 series) vary in sound characteristics, > between the different brands or grades? >Yes. >If so, is there a tube that would produce a >mellower, smoother, or milkier sound?? >Or are the differences so slight, that I really won’t hear >any big differences?? >The tube that has such a sound in one device will have a totally different >sound in another device. You can get the nifty curves from the manufacturer, >and, knowing the circuit, make a good guess at the headroom and the >coloration, but it’s still only a guess. >I have been doing some tube sound comparisons on a tube >equipped Guitar Processor I have (DigiTech RP-7) it has one >Sovtek 12AX7WA in it. >I do not know tubes. I hear talk about how a Groove tube sounds >better than a Sovtek, but they in fact may be the same tube >because all Groove does is test and put their names on the >tubes that meet their specs. Is this correct?? >Well, since Groove Tubes is no longer really in business as far as I >can tell, this is academic. But yes, GT selected and graded commercial >tubes, and they sold particular grades for particular applications.
Snippage >"C’est un Nagra. C’est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
When did Groove Tubes quit being in the tube business? You are joking , right?
Response:
They DO indeed sound different. This is because of two factors: 1) variations in construction. Linearity in tubes is dependent upon the relative shapes and alignments of the operating electrodes. People have remarked that the lowest-distortion small tubes tend to be the ones with perfectly cylindrical and concentric anode, grid and cathode. 2) Cathode coating. Every tube factory has/had their own formulas, which were often adjusted over the years. This affects the transient response of the cathode’s emission. Cheaply-made Chinese and Russian tubes (not Svetlana’s) tend to have poor-quality, thin cathode coatings, made with impure chemicals. –Eric Barbour – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >This question I have has to do with pre-amp tubes and >guitar processors. >Do pre-amp tubes (12AX7 series) vary in sound characteristics, > between the different brands or grades? >If so, is there a tube that would produce a >mellower, smoother, or milkier sound?? >Or are the differences so slight, that I really won’t hear >any big differences?? >I have been doing some tube sound comparisons on a tube >equipped Guitar Processor I have (DigiTech RP-7) it has one >Sovtek 12AX7WA in it. >I do not know tubes. I hear talk about how a Groove tube sounds >better than a Sovtek, but they in fact may be the same tube >because all Groove does is test and put their names on the >tubes that meet their specs. Is this correct?? >I guess Sovtek also has different grades of tubes too. >I have a Sovtek 12AX7WA and a Sovtek 12AX7WB, >and to me, these two tubes do sound a little different from >one another. The WA a little louder and brighter. >I even dug out an old 1960 Silvertone 12AX7 >and tried it, and to me it sounded less loud and bright >than the WA but more loud and bright than the WB. >I appreciate any and all suggestion and comments. >Thank you
Response:
> Well, since Groove Tubes is no longer really in business as far as I > can tell, this is academic. But yes, GT selected and graded commercial > tubes, and they sold particular grades for particular applications.
They had a booth (though not a big one) at NAMM. The electronics business was sold to Alesis, but the tube and component business still remains, and Aspen Pitman, while working as a consultant to Alesis, still has the dream of owning his own tube factory in the US. —
Response:
No one’s mentioned it but you could try a 12AU7 instead to see what effect you will get. This tube has less gain and is a lower Z but sometimes it makes sense to use it – it should mellow out your amp for sure! But will cut the distortion over-drive as well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >This question I have has to do with pre-amp tubes and >guitar processors. >Do pre-amp tubes (12AX7 series) vary in sound characteristics, > between the different brands or grades? >If so, is there a tube that would produce a >mellower, smoother, or milkier sound?? >Or are the differences so slight, that I really won’t hear >any big differences?? >I have been doing some tube sound comparisons on a tube >equipped Guitar Processor I have (DigiTech RP-7) it has one >Sovtek 12AX7WA in it. >I do not know tubes. I hear talk about how a Groove tube sounds >better than a Sovtek, but they in fact may be the same tube >because all Groove does is test and put their names on the >tubes that meet their specs. Is this correct?? >I guess Sovtek also has different grades of tubes too. >I have a Sovtek 12AX7WA and a Sovtek 12AX7WB, >and to me, these two tubes do sound a little different from >one another. The WA a little louder and brighter. >I even dug out an old 1960 Silvertone 12AX7 >and tried it, and to me it sounded less loud and bright >than the WA but more loud and bright than the WB. >I appreciate any and all suggestion and comments. >Thank you
Response:
What do you mean, "Groove tubes is out of business"? I don’t think that’s true. A.T. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This question I have has to do with pre-amp tubes and >guitar processors. >Do pre-amp tubes (12AX7 series) vary in sound characteristics, > between the different brands or grades? > Yes. >If so, is there a tube that would produce a >mellower, smoother, or milkier sound?? >Or are the differences so slight, that I really won’t hear >any big differences?? > The tube that has such a sound in one device will have a totally different > sound in another device. You can get the nifty curves from the manufacturer, > and, knowing the circuit, make a good guess at the headroom and the > coloration, but it’s still only a guess. >I have been doing some tube sound comparisons on a tube >equipped Guitar Processor I have (DigiTech RP-7) it has one >Sovtek 12AX7WA in it. >I do not know tubes. I hear talk about how a Groove tube sounds >better than a Sovtek, but they in fact may be the same tube >because all Groove does is test and put their names on the >tubes that meet their specs. Is this correct?? > Well, since Groove Tubes is no longer really in business as far as I > can tell, this is academic. But yes, GT selected and graded commercial > tubes, and they sold particular grades for particular applications. >I guess Sovtek also has different grades of tubes too. >I have a Sovtek 12AX7WA and a Sovtek 12AX7WB, >and to me, these two tubes do sound a little different from >one another. The WA a little louder and brighter. > These are actually different tube designs internally, not just different > grades of the same design. But it’s true that the tone could differ > between different grades of the same design depending on what it was > selected for. >I even dug out an old 1960 Silvertone 12AX7 >and tried it, and to me it sounded less loud and bright >than the WA but more loud and bright than the WB. > Yup, and if you plotted a grid/plate characteristic curve you’d see > a difference, too. > –scott > — > "C’est un Nagra. C’est suisse, et tres, tres precis."