Business History Books » Business Consultant » Travel agents paying for business – no way !
Travel agents paying for business – no way !
Question:
>>The increase in overall sales generated by lower prices can more >than offset losses on commission. >So why don’t the lines do this? Their marketing people must not have figured >this one out yet?
They still cannot afford to alienate the Travel Agencies. There are still at least 90% of the (American) people out there that have never taken a cruise. That’s a lot of potential first timers. Many of those do need to have their hands held through the process, if and when they book their first cruise. Russ
Response:
The last time I went to a doctor – he told me I had 15 min. (after waiting for him for 3hrs.) – he got $100. – i got nothing! Never got a reduction when I researched my rare disease on the web & told him what it was when he informed me that he never heard of it. What doctor has their salary cut 50% in this flourishing economy. Compare salaries of doctors vs agents! Now a bit of business for all – you pay more on taxes & govt.fees than what agents make – on some tkts. it’s triple. When you cancel – do you ever get it refunded?
Response:
> <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> > <html> > Most attorneys should work for free.</html>
Let me juxtapose another of your comments from later in this thread: "Your email is snotty and mean. "Welcome to America." What a stupid line! " You seem to relish smart-ass sarcasm when it deals with someone else’s occupation. Ever hear the term, "he can dish it out but he can’t take it"? 
— "If this is tea, please bring me some coffee. If this is coffee, please bring me some tea." - Abraham Lincoln Before you buy.
Response:
>2. The only reason the cruise lines don’t give commissions to consumers >directly is that the pressure from the TA community selling their >product would be overwhelming.
You don’t think greed has anything to do with this? Why should they rebate if you pay it anyway? It means more profit dollars in their pockets. And, it’s pure profit too. >The increase in overall sales generated by lower prices can more >than offset losses on commission.
So why don’t the lines do this? Their marketing people must not have figured this one out yet? Also, you seem to have the same bad info as so many others. Most agents don’t set their commission and a huge percent are paid hourly and don’t even get commission. The only agents that can give a true "rebate" (vs a built in one) of commission are owner/operators. Most rebates are a marketing tool used to push the consumer over the edge and buy. Their strokin’ them pal. They don’t even know it and they like it. It’s one of the oldest games in the book. "I want to drive the Zamboni, I want to drive the Zamboni. . . yes I do"
Response:
**** John,
> Some observations: > 1. TA’s get sensitive about this topic because it means money out of > their pocket, food off the table.
Doubtful much food being taken off tables since very rare for a travel agent to be doing travel as a sole income or even large part of income. Look at who your T/As are for the most part. Retirees, youngsters looking for some travel, travelers in other fields that have adequate free time to pursue part time, and so forth. Even agency owners are most often 1 or 2 desk operations that THEY spend the most time at the desk working diligently. >But the fact remains that cruises are > *mostly* a commodity product on the same ship and sailing date and > consumers have motivation to shop for the best deal, including > commission rebates.
No argument there. > 2. The only reason the cruise lines don’t give commissions to consumers > directly is that the pressure from the TA community selling their > product would be overwhelming.
Yes and no. Yes one of the motivators is not wanting to disrupt the current distribution system. The no part comes in that should online direct booking ever become real big I have no doubt that the line will not lower rates by the commission portion. The amount of employees and infrastructure needed to handle online booking will be there cause for maintaing the same if not higher price structure. > Look at Renaissance. Even though they > play along now there is still a lingering bad taste in many agents’ > mouths. I think this situation will continue for the near future, > because there is still imperfect knowledge among many first time > cruisers out there who need to be "sold". Once that need evaporates and > advertising is sufficient to market cabins, the need for TAs decreases > and we will see more direct bookings, like the airlines. There is a > good article in today’s New York Times about Web sites that search for > great last minute deals. All these bypass the TA. And in many cases, > the airfares quoted are "Internet-0nly" rates. If you use a TA to book, > or even the airline’s own reservation agents, the savings (commission > rebates in a sense) dissapear.
From recent news article. "The front-runners so far are Internet travel sites such as Travelocity (1999 revenue $64.2 million) and Expedia ($38.7 million). Like many Internet companies, neither one has been able to turn a profit, and continued losses could impair their ability to pour new investment into the fight." Travel internet sites are folding faster than straw houses in wolf country. > 4. The increase in overall sales generated by lower prices can more > than offset losses on commission. Look at the big boys, like Sam’s > Club. I quit using them seven years ago because their service left > something to be desired, but they do make a nice little profit on their > shaved commissions.
I believe I just read the other day that they had QUIETLY closed down their travel operation, no dinero! If it wasn’t them then it was the other big warehouse operation. But I do think it was them, anyone know for a fact? George in NY
Response:
> 5. Each consumer must find the right balance between the amount of work > he is willing to do himself in terms of research and monitoring a > booking for rate reductions, vs. how much commission he wants back. > Five percent from a full service TA is normal. Ten percent from Sam’s > is better, but you had better be on the ball. Make sure you keep final > payment dates in mind, and monitor the market yourself for reductions > you might qualify for. Is it worth the savings? Let the consumer be > the judge.
If the price and other factors are acceptable I will book. If the price is too high I don’t book. I have a pretty good idea what the prices are for the cruises I am booking. I know what I am willing to pay. I don’t ask the TA to rebate me commission. The method they use to get an acceptable price I will pay does not concern me, whether they are rebating, or if they get a good price from the cruise line because of their agency, or whether they are smart enough to ask for all the resident and DSM specials or whatever.
Response:
Charles, You got it. That’s the bottom line. Who cares where the deal comes from? Most likely from commission but other sources are there too. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 5. Each consumer must find the right balance between the amount of work > he is willing to do himself in terms of research and monitoring a > booking for rate reductions, vs. how much commission he wants back. > Five percent from a full service TA is normal. Ten percent from Sam’s > is better, but you had better be on the ball. Make sure you keep final > payment dates in mind, and monitor the market yourself for reductions > you might qualify for. Is it worth the savings? Let the consumer be > the judge. > If the price and other factors are acceptable I will book. If the price is > too high I don’t book. I have a pretty good idea what the prices are for the > cruises I am booking. I know what I am willing to pay. I don’t ask the TA to > rebate me commission. The method they use to get an acceptable price I will > pay does not concern me, whether they are rebating, or if they get a good > price from the cruise line because of their agency, or whether they are > smart enough to ask for all the resident and DSM specials or whatever.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly >about >this. >I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I >earn >my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) >to >make a sale. >How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any >other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel >agent be different? >Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible >but, >just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. >Iris Messina – Travel Agent >L. A. World Travel & Cruises
I too make my living from commissions. Every time I make a price concession in order to make a sale, I essentially "Kick Back" some of my commission. Happens all the time in the sales world. As a matter of fact, it happens every day. Perhaps you should have gone to Medical School? Don’t get me wrong here, I understand your strong feelings… but there is a market out there, and competion to deal with. The best clients you will ever have are those that use you regularly, trust you to do a good job, and will not fight you over price at every turn. They pay you gladly because they understand you work hard to help them. These clients will usually refer you to others that are of the same fabric. Enbrace them, and rid yourself of those that want you to work for free. Salespeople fire bad clients all the time, I know I do.
Response:
HI Iris, I am a cruise only agent who gets a flat salary from my employeer. This is good but it also means that I still have to produce sales with good commissions to keep the company running. As I’m sure you do, we do sometimes cut our commissions to give the client a little better fare but those are usual based on the cruise lines that we have net rates and add our own mark up. (which in all honesty is not a great amount but all sales people do it). What I don’t like is .. as the kind doctor said..giving a client a disount that cuts into my commissions because they think they have done all the work. We still have to make the booking, deal with the cruise line. send a check (and in our case we send things with bank drafts and moneyorders and send them via FEDEX).. make the call to the cruise line when the ticket documents haven’t arrived, etc etc etc.. So maybe they have told you what you want but there is still much to do. I for one have never been to a doctors office and been given a discount on the rate.. oh.. maybe I’m to well off.. but still can afford to give a discount on a cruise for this same man. The other issue.. which we have been round and round with is the issue of gifts. People just have to understand that a gift also cost money and that also eats into our commissions. Ok…our clients get a nice small or large photo album when we give them their documents.. when you have given that.. and based on who the person is and what ship they are taking.. we will do a nice flower arrangment or gift basket.. some get wine and cheese.. others get really really great customer service. so.. good luck in your sales.. and stand back and watch more words fly.. Sarah Layne Cruise Consultant Foster and Ince Cruise Services Barbados – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
Before you buy.
Response:
>. . .keep on charging for your work. Let the guys who want to "deal" >do their deal somewhere else. You don’t need their business.
amen and amen "I want to drive the Zamboni, I want to drive the Zamboni. . . yes I do"
Response:
>Most attorneys should work for free.
attorneys work? "I want to drive the Zamboni, I want to drive the Zamboni. . . yes I do"
Response:
Some observations: 1. TA’s get sensitive about this topic because it means money out of their pocket, food off the table. But the fact remains that cruises are *mostly* a commodity product on the same ship and sailing date and consumers have motivation to shop for the best deal, including commission rebates. The non-commodity portion of the product is mostly the very basic level of service — avoidance of negatives. Incompetant agents who screw up are to be avoided. Anything better than that, for someone who has already researched the market and picked their ship and date, is sufficient. 2. The only reason the cruise lines don’t give commissions to consumers directly is that the pressure from the TA community selling their product would be overwhelming. Look at Renaissance. Even though they play along now there is still a lingering bad taste in many agents’ mouths. I think this situation will continue for the near future, because there is still imperfect knowledge among many first time cruisers out there who need to be "sold". Once that need evaporates and advertising is sufficient to market cabins, the need for TAs decreases and we will see more direct bookings, like the airlines. There is a good article in today’s New York Times about Web sites that search for great last minute deals. All these bypass the TA. And in many cases, the airfares quoted are "Internet-0nly" rates. If you use a TA to book, or even the airline’s own reservation agents, the savings (commission rebates in a sense) dissapear. 3. To those agents out there who will "never rebate", you are losing business. There are plenty of great TA’s that will rebate some portion of their commission routinely, and still give great service. They aren’t that hard to find. Just look at some of the posters on rtc. And what do you give up? Not much. Perhaps the gift bottle of wine or flowers. 4. The increase in overall sales generated by lower prices can more than offset losses on commission. Look at the big boys, like Sam’s Club. I quit using them seven years ago because their service left something to be desired, but they do make a nice little profit on their shaved commissions. 5. Each consumer must find the right balance between the amount of work he is willing to do himself in terms of research and monitoring a booking for rate reductions, vs. how much commission he wants back. Five percent from a full service TA is normal. Ten percent from Sam’s is better, but you had better be on the ball. Make sure you keep final payment dates in mind, and monitor the market yourself for reductions you might qualify for. Is it worth the savings? Let the consumer be the judge. To summarize, it is all about informed choice. You get what you pay for, and it is up to the consumer to determine what level of service he needs. Direct internet cruise bookings with lower prices will happen when the public’s knowledge of the cruise product is satisfied by advertising and direct marketing. Cruises will go the way of the airlines. Unfortunately, this "cutting out of the middle man" will not be good for travel agents, who are already working very hard for meager commissions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I disagree. The client should ask the CRUISE LINE for the price > discount. > And if price is critical, the client can shop until the lowest retail > price and cheapest travel agent is found. And then, good luck – you’ll > get what you pay for. > Your email is snotty and mean. "Welcome to America." What a stupid > line! > You say she can try for increased prices for incremental service. > Wrong. > A broad section of travels agencies across your America do receive and > retain the full commission paid by the cruise lines. It is not a > widespread practice to toss in or kick back – because hard working and > long term agencies can receive very attractive cruise rates – and with > specialization and high unit volume, actually receive higher > commission rates than many agencies. > In the airline side, those clients who use travel agents are being > charged service fees because the airlines cut the commissions > drastically. Those clients don’t ask for discounts – they understand > the realities. > The "niche" that is appearing in this subject, as you insist, is a > number of cruise prospects who find it critical to spend the least > money possible on a trip. There are some lines who specialize in > serving them (let’s not into rapping the bulk cruise lines) and there > are agencies who promote only on price – and the quality of their work > – including breath of knowledge – reflects how they use their meager > income. > You want, fine. But travel agents are doing something the cruise lines > presently can not do for the same % ratio to gross sales. The cruise > lines want them – and court them. There is little compelling reason > for agencies to toss back, even to cheapos like you. I’ve never seen > client loyalty come from that kind of business practice in the agency > business. > Itis, you keep on charging for your work. Let the guys who want to > "deal" do their deal somewhere else. You don’t need their business.
Response:
So find a real job
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
Response:
>I know, having been in the business, that it can be frustrating to be hard >worked by a client and yet receive a rather minimal fee for that particular >client. Yet this is also often balanced out by the clients that require >little time and effort and still produce a fee. Bottom line is, as with any >business, you operate within the guidelines of the business and then come to >a decision on whether or not the financial rewards and so forth are worth it >or not. In my case they were not so I left the business. You may eventually >come to the same conclusion if you are feeling that your reward for hard >work is not enough in compensation.
Like you, George, I was for a short time an outside agent. It was my intent to get people that I knew and associated with hooked on cruising and be able to give them a fair price in exchange for repeat business. My clientel was to be the more educated traveller that didn’t need to have their hands held through the whole process, once they had been on a couple cruises. Unfortunately, I got hooked up with an agency that worked out of an office. The owners counted on walk in business for their income. Even though I lived and worked outside their "territory", They would not let me discount their price. If I were to offer rebates it would be totally out of my own commission. An outside agent that cannot discount will never develop a sizeable clientel. Russ
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
Its not the client that cuts into your revenue, its your competition. When I am looking to buy a brand new car, I compare a few dealerships looking for the best deal on exactly the same car. Yes, I will take the service and my convenience into consideration, but still this approach saved me up to 10% on the purchase. How did the dealer that won my business get this discount, I do not know nor care. The same applies when shopping for any commodity – crude oil, vacation, … Medical services, BTW, are not commodity, and price comparison is not the decisive factor here. I turn to my travel agent when I do not really know myself what I am looking for, or when the arrangement is too complex. In short, when I need her advice. Then I simply trust that she’ll give me the best deal she can. Then she is not a simple intermediary between consumer (me) and provider (aiurline), she provides me with information – and this is what wins her my business. If I know exactly what I need (when and where to go, where to stay, etc.) and all this can be bought as a "standard" package, i.e. commodity, then comparison shopping is in order. Then its not my concern how did the TA arrive at the best price. When TAs are retail agents for a "standard" travel package, they are subjects for competition as much as gas stations, and I do not care why one gas station is cheaper, all the rest being equal. And yes, the level of service provided by TAs matters, but so does the level of service provided by gas stations. And yes, to some clients the price matters more than service, and to some less. Normal retail business. ——- Nohum Before you buy.
Response:
I think you look at it the wrong way. The kickback as you call it that many customers expect is like someone using a coupon or getting a discount. I have run my own business as a dog trainer. I knew my expenses were going to be X amount to rent a place to have classes, pay for advertising, etc. Anything after that was my "salary" or "profit" –basically getting paid for my work. I would often be willing to give a "kickback" to customers when they signed up. 10% off the whole class would sometimes equal half of what I was making per dog after expenses but it was worth it to me when things were slow to offer the incentive. I always thought that 1/2 of my pay was better compared to no pay at all! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
– Margaret Fine
Response:
> I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business.
If you resent the way the business works, then perhaps you are in the wrong occupation. With the low unemployment we have had you might want to make a change.You are in sales. Doctors, lawyers, accountants and dry cleaners are not on commission. You don’t have to give a kick back. Of course you might lose your business if you do not compete with your fellow agents for business. Your decision. If all your fellow agents stopped then you would not have to do it to compete. Of course then us customers might not see a reason to use travel agents and just book direct with the cruise line.
Response:
>giving a client a >disount that cuts into my commissions because they think they have done >all the work.
Work that he didn’t need to do anyway. >I for one have never been to a doctors office and been given a discount
Me either but I go on Monday I think I’ll ask. . . "Hey doc (or maybe I’ll call him by his first name) "Hey Jim, you know there’s this doctor down the street and he is giving me a better rate. I also found this one on the internet too. So, I really already know what’s wrong and how to fix it. Do you match rates?" Face it, many people are simply rude, crude and stupid. It also doesn’t help when the cruise lines are out there giving this stuff away already. Commission on a 1200 dollar cruise is alot nicer than a 499 cruise. "I want to drive the Zamboni, I want to drive the Zamboni. . . yes I do"
Response:
> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business.
Iris, it is certainly your right to set your fees and service levels wherever you wish, but you are being a bit naive when you rail upon potential customers for demanding lower prices. It’s called the free enterprise system. You either set your price at the lowest level at which you can make a reasonable profit, or you set them higher and try to establish a market niche in which you provide some incremental level of extra service for the increased price. Welcome to America, Iris. Once you’ve been here a while I think you’ll like it as much as the rest of us do. — Jim Bucholz "Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you do criticize him, you’ll be a mile away and you’ll have his shoes." — Steve Martin
Response:
I’m an attorney and I cut my fees all the time, and frequently give services for free. But that is entirely beside the point. Do you think that 10% was somehow engraved in the Ten Commandments? Wake up sister, you are operating in a free market economy. A better analogy would be whether you always pay sticker price for an automobile. If someone else will do the same job cheaper, they are going to get the business. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
– "If this is tea, please bring me some coffee. If this is coffee, please bring me some tea." - Abraham Lincoln Before you buy.
Response:
>You don’t have to give a kick back. Of course
Most don’t. >If all your fellow agents stopped then you would not have to do it to >compete.
There are other ways to compete. >Of course then us customers might not see a reason to use travel >agents and just book direct with the cruise line.
They don’t kickback either.
Response:
> I for one have never been to a doctors office and been given a discount > on the rate.. oh.. maybe I’m to well off.. but still can afford to give > a discount on a cruise for this same man.
My mother has called the doctors officce when she thought the bill was to high. Every time they lowered the bill.
Response:
> I for one have never been to a doctors office and been given a discount > on the rate.. oh.. maybe I’m to well off.. but still can afford to give > a discount on a cruise for this same man.
I forgot to mention that I do get a discount at the Doctors office. I am in a point of service network and pay a flat $15 for any visit.
Response:
Iris, With all due respect, if you’ve ever given a client a bottle of wine, champagne, flowers in their cabin or any other gift, then you’re "paying for their business". Call it a "gift" if you like, but it’s still a rebate. I’ve been selling cruises for over twenty years. During that time I’ve learned that gifts for my clients, and commission kickbacks from time to time, are a fact of life for today’s travel agent. Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
Response:
Iris, Although it may not be a commission, I certainly look for a " better " price when dealing with many vendors and merchants based upon amount of business I do with them and so forth. Yesterday I rented some storage space for personal use and inquired if they were willing to issue a discounted rate for paying a year in advance. They were not so I rented monthly. They made a decision that it was not worth there while to be guarenteed a years rental paid up front. You make you decision on whether you wish to remain competitive by adjusting the commission rate. Many years ago agencies recieved discounted rates by the quanity of business they did with the merchant/cruiseline. The local office of a National agency simply had a better price than you did. Then it was improper for them to further discount by cutting commission rate on top of their preferred pricing. That was all stopped because the little guy was rapidly being forced out and the lines could not tolerate losing the small offices as they were still the best distribution points. This because no matter how big a national agency they were still not everywhere, whereas the little guys are. It appear you might resent cutting your rates. Then you are probably in the wrong business, sales, since wheeling and dealing is certainly a part of sales by its nature. Besides it is what gives you, the little shop( presumably), a chance to do business in this market. T/A service is certainly a plus for many especially first time cruisers, but for many the service aspect is not a large requirement. This is true more so today with the age of the internet and the ability to research ones own needs and to get answers, oft times better answers, from fellow cruisers and the numerous cruise oriented pages. If the price was identical because of standardized pricing many would opt to simply book direct with a line and cut out the middle person. Allowing for discounting of commissions directly decided by each agent or agency is what evens the market for you. I know, having been in the business, that it can be frustrating to be hard worked by a client and yet receive a rather minimal fee for that particular client. Yet this is also often balanced out by the clients that require little time and effort and still produce a fee. Bottom line is, as with any business, you operate within the guidelines of the business and then come to a decision on whether or not the financial rewards and so forth are worth it or not. In my case they were not so I left the business. You may eventually come to the same conclusion if you are feeling that your reward for hard work is not enough in compensation. — George in NY My cruise old links can be found on my pal and TA’s page http://www.bestweb.net/~travel1/ as well as recent Century review and photos and recent Destiny visit photos. All photo are taken by me and not copyrighted ( page copyrights don’t apply to photo’s ) and are herein declared in public domain for all to use, preferably on non-commercial cruise pages.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly >about >this. >I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I >earn >my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) >to >make a sale. >How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any >other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel >agent be different? >Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible >but, >just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. >Iris Messina – Travel Agent >L. A. World Travel & Cruises
I too make my living from commissions. Every time I make a price concession in order to make a sale, I essentially "Kick Back" some of my commission. Happens all the time in the sales world. As a matter of fact, it happens every day. Perhaps you should have gone to Medical School? Don’t get me wrong here, I understand your strong feelings… but there is a market out there, and competion to deal with. The best clients you will ever have are those that use you regularly, trust you to do a good job, and will not fight you over price at every turn. They pay you gladly because they understand you work hard to help them. These clients will usually refer you to others that are of the same fabric. Enbrace them, and rid yourself of those that want you to work for free. Salespeople fire bad clients all the time, I know I do.
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HI Iris, I am a cruise only agent who gets a flat salary from my employeer. This is good but it also means that I still have to produce sales with good commissions to keep the company running. As I’m sure you do, we do sometimes cut our commissions to give the client a little better fare but those are usual based on the cruise lines that we have net rates and add our own mark up. (which in all honesty is not a great amount but all sales people do it). What I don’t like is .. as the kind doctor said..giving a client a disount that cuts into my commissions because they think they have done all the work. We still have to make the booking, deal with the cruise line. send a check (and in our case we send things with bank drafts and moneyorders and send them via FEDEX).. make the call to the cruise line when the ticket documents haven’t arrived, etc etc etc.. So maybe they have told you what you want but there is still much to do. I for one have never been to a doctors office and been given a discount on the rate.. oh.. maybe I’m to well off.. but still can afford to give a discount on a cruise for this same man. The other issue.. which we have been round and round with is the issue of gifts. People just have to understand that a gift also cost money and that also eats into our commissions. Ok…our clients get a nice small or large photo album when we give them their documents.. when you have given that.. and based on who the person is and what ship they are taking.. we will do a nice flower arrangment or gift basket.. some get wine and cheese.. others get really really great customer service. so.. good luck in your sales.. and stand back and watch more words fly.. Sarah Layne Cruise Consultant Foster and Ince Cruise Services Barbados – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
Before you buy.
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> I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business.
If you resent the way the business works, then perhaps you are in the wrong occupation. With the low unemployment we have had you might want to make a change.You are in sales. Doctors, lawyers, accountants and dry cleaners are not on commission. You don’t have to give a kick back. Of course you might lose your business if you do not compete with your fellow agents for business. Your decision. If all your fellow agents stopped then you would not have to do it to compete. Of course then us customers might not see a reason to use travel agents and just book direct with the cruise line.
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>giving a client a >disount that cuts into my commissions because they think they have done >all the work.
Work that he didn’t need to do anyway. >I for one have never been to a doctors office and been given a discount
Me either but I go on Monday I think I’ll ask. . . "Hey doc (or maybe I’ll call him by his first name) "Hey Jim, you know there’s this doctor down the street and he is giving me a better rate. I also found this one on the internet too. So, I really already know what’s wrong and how to fix it. Do you match rates?" Face it, many people are simply rude, crude and stupid. It also doesn’t help when the cruise lines are out there giving this stuff away already. Commission on a 1200 dollar cruise is alot nicer than a 499 cruise. "I want to drive the Zamboni, I want to drive the Zamboni. . . yes I do"
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> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business.
Iris, it is certainly your right to set your fees and service levels wherever you wish, but you are being a bit naive when you rail upon potential customers for demanding lower prices. It’s called the free enterprise system. You either set your price at the lowest level at which you can make a reasonable profit, or you set them higher and try to establish a market niche in which you provide some incremental level of extra service for the increased price. Welcome to America, Iris. Once you’ve been here a while I think you’ll like it as much as the rest of us do. — Jim Bucholz "Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you do criticize him, you’ll be a mile away and you’ll have his shoes." — Steve Martin
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I’m an attorney and I cut my fees all the time, and frequently give services for free. But that is entirely beside the point. Do you think that 10% was somehow engraved in the Ten Commandments? Wake up sister, you are operating in a free market economy. A better analogy would be whether you always pay sticker price for an automobile. If someone else will do the same job cheaper, they are going to get the business. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
– "If this is tea, please bring me some coffee. If this is coffee, please bring me some tea." - Abraham Lincoln Before you buy.
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>You don’t have to give a kick back. Of course
Most don’t. >If all your fellow agents stopped then you would not have to do it to >compete.
There are other ways to compete. >Of course then us customers might not see a reason to use travel >agents and just book direct with the cruise line.
They don’t kickback either.
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> I for one have never been to a doctors office and been given a discount > on the rate.. oh.. maybe I’m to well off.. but still can afford to give > a discount on a cruise for this same man.
My mother has called the doctors officce when she thought the bill was to high. Every time they lowered the bill.
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> I for one have never been to a doctors office and been given a discount > on the rate.. oh.. maybe I’m to well off.. but still can afford to give > a discount on a cruise for this same man.
I forgot to mention that I do get a discount at the Doctors office. I am in a point of service network and pay a flat $15 for any visit.
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Iris, With all due respect, if you’ve ever given a client a bottle of wine, champagne, flowers in their cabin or any other gift, then you’re "paying for their business". Call it a "gift" if you like, but it’s still a rebate. I’ve been selling cruises for over twenty years. During that time I’ve learned that gifts for my clients, and commission kickbacks from time to time, are a fact of life for today’s travel agent. Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
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Iris, Although it may not be a commission, I certainly look for a " better " price when dealing with many vendors and merchants based upon amount of business I do with them and so forth. Yesterday I rented some storage space for personal use and inquired if they were willing to issue a discounted rate for paying a year in advance. They were not so I rented monthly. They made a decision that it was not worth there while to be guarenteed a years rental paid up front. You make you decision on whether you wish to remain competitive by adjusting the commission rate. Many years ago agencies recieved discounted rates by the quanity of business they did with the merchant/cruiseline. The local office of a National agency simply had a better price than you did. Then it was improper for them to further discount by cutting commission rate on top of their preferred pricing. That was all stopped because the little guy was rapidly being forced out and the lines could not tolerate losing the small offices as they were still the best distribution points. This because no matter how big a national agency they were still not everywhere, whereas the little guys are. It appear you might resent cutting your rates. Then you are probably in the wrong business, sales, since wheeling and dealing is certainly a part of sales by its nature. Besides it is what gives you, the little shop( presumably), a chance to do business in this market. T/A service is certainly a plus for many especially first time cruisers, but for many the service aspect is not a large requirement. This is true more so today with the age of the internet and the ability to research ones own needs and to get answers, oft times better answers, from fellow cruisers and the numerous cruise oriented pages. If the price was identical because of standardized pricing many would opt to simply book direct with a line and cut out the middle person. Allowing for discounting of commissions directly decided by each agent or agency is what evens the market for you. I know, having been in the business, that it can be frustrating to be hard worked by a client and yet receive a rather minimal fee for that particular client. Yet this is also often balanced out by the clients that require little time and effort and still produce a fee. Bottom line is, as with any business, you operate within the guidelines of the business and then come to a decision on whether or not the financial rewards and so forth are worth it or not. In my case they were not so I left the business. You may eventually come to the same conclusion if you are feeling that your reward for hard work is not enough in compensation. — George in NY My cruise old links can be found on my pal and TA’s page http://www.bestweb.net/~travel1/ as well as recent Century review and photos and recent Destiny visit photos. All photo are taken by me and not copyrighted ( page copyrights don’t apply to photo’s ) and are herein declared in public domain for all to use, preferably on non-commercial cruise pages.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
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I think you look at it the wrong way. The kickback as you call it that many customers expect is like someone using a coupon or getting a discount. I have run my own business as a dog trainer. I knew my expenses were going to be X amount to rent a place to have classes, pay for advertising, etc. Anything after that was my "salary" or "profit" –basically getting paid for my work. I would often be willing to give a "kickback" to customers when they signed up. 10% off the whole class would sometimes equal half of what I was making per dog after expenses but it was worth it to me when things were slow to offer the incentive. I always thought that 1/2 of my pay was better compared to no pay at all! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
– Margaret Fine
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
Its not the client that cuts into your revenue, its your competition. When I am looking to buy a brand new car, I compare a few dealerships looking for the best deal on exactly the same car. Yes, I will take the service and my convenience into consideration, but still this approach saved me up to 10% on the purchase. How did the dealer that won my business get this discount, I do not know nor care. The same applies when shopping for any commodity – crude oil, vacation, … Medical services, BTW, are not commodity, and price comparison is not the decisive factor here. I turn to my travel agent when I do not really know myself what I am looking for, or when the arrangement is too complex. In short, when I need her advice. Then I simply trust that she’ll give me the best deal she can. Then she is not a simple intermediary between consumer (me) and provider (aiurline), she provides me with information – and this is what wins her my business. If I know exactly what I need (when and where to go, where to stay, etc.) and all this can be bought as a "standard" package, i.e. commodity, then comparison shopping is in order. Then its not my concern how did the TA arrive at the best price. When TAs are retail agents for a "standard" travel package, they are subjects for competition as much as gas stations, and I do not care why one gas station is cheaper, all the rest being equal. And yes, the level of service provided by TAs matters, but so does the level of service provided by gas stations. And yes, to some clients the price matters more than service, and to some less. Normal retail business. ——- Nohum Before you buy.
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So find a real job
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’ll get flamed on this but, I have to do it.I feel very strongly about > this. > I am a travel agent and my commissions (and only my commissions) is how I earn > my living. > I resent to no end that I am expected to kick-back (and that’s what it is) to > make a sale. > How many of you ask your doctors, lawyers, accountants, dry-cleaners, or any > other service professional to split their fees with you? Why should a travel > agent be different? > Yes, I will bend over-backwards to give you the best damn service possible but, > just don’t ask me to pay you for your business. > Iris Messina – Travel Agent > L. A. World Travel & Cruises
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>I know, having been in the business, that it can be frustrating to be hard >worked by a client and yet receive a rather minimal fee for that particular >client. Yet this is also often balanced out by the clients that require >little time and effort and still produce a fee. Bottom line is, as with any >business, you operate within the guidelines of the business and then come to >a decision on whether or not the financial rewards and so forth are worth it >or not. In my case they were not so I left the business. You may eventually >come to the same conclusion if you are feeling that your reward for hard >work is not enough in compensation.
Like you, George, I was for a short time an outside agent. It was my intent to get people that I knew and associated with hooked on cruising and be able to give them a fair price in exchange for repeat business. My clientel was to be the more educated traveller that didn’t need to have their hands held through the whole process, once they had been on a couple cruises. Unfortunately, I got hooked up with an agency that worked out of an office. The owners counted on walk in business for their income. Even though I lived and worked outside their "territory", They would not let me discount their price. If I were to offer rebates it would be totally out of my own commission. An outside agent that cannot discount will never develop a sizeable clientel. Russ
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>. . .keep on charging for your work. Let the guys who want to "deal" >do their deal somewhere else. You don’t need their business.
amen and amen "I want to drive the Zamboni, I want to drive the Zamboni. . . yes I do"
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>Most attorneys should work for free.
attorneys work? "I want to drive the Zamboni, I want to drive the Zamboni. . . yes I do"
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Some observations: 1. TA’s get sensitive about this topic because it means money out of their pocket, food off the table. But the fact remains that cruises are *mostly* a commodity product on the same ship and sailing date and consumers have motivation to shop for the best deal, including commission rebates. The non-commodity portion of the product is mostly the very basic level of service — avoidance of negatives. Incompetant agents who screw up are to be avoided. Anything better than that, for someone who has already researched the market and picked their ship and date, is sufficient. 2. The only reason the cruise lines don’t give commissions to consumers directly is that the pressure from the TA community selling their product would be overwhelming. Look at Renaissance. Even though they play along now there is still a lingering bad taste in many agents’ mouths. I think this situation will continue for the near future, because there is still imperfect knowledge among many first time cruisers out there who need to be "sold". Once that need evaporates and advertising is sufficient to market cabins, the need for TAs decreases and we will see more direct bookings, like the airlines. There is a good article in today’s New York Times about Web sites that search for great last minute deals. All these bypass the TA. And in many cases, the airfares quoted are "Internet-0nly" rates. If you use a TA to book, or even the airline’s own reservation agents, the savings (commission rebates in a sense) dissapear. 3. To those agents out there who will "never rebate", you are losing business. There are plenty of great TA’s that will rebate some portion of their commission routinely, and still give great service. They aren’t that hard to find. Just look at some of the posters on rtc. And what do you give up? Not much. Perhaps the gift bottle of wine or flowers. 4. The increase in overall sales generated by lower prices can more than offset losses on commission. Look at the big boys, like Sam’s Club. I quit using them seven years ago because their service left something to be desired, but they do make a nice little profit on their shaved commissions. 5. Each consumer must find the right balance between the amount of work he is willing to do himself in terms of research and monitoring a booking for rate reductions, vs. how much commission he wants back. Five percent from a full service TA is normal. Ten percent from Sam’s is better, but you had better be on the ball. Make sure you keep final payment dates in mind, and monitor the market yourself for reductions you might qualify for. Is it worth the savings? Let the consumer be the judge. To summarize, it is all about informed choice. You get what you pay for, and it is up to the consumer to determine what level of service he needs. Direct internet cruise bookings with lower prices will happen when the public’s knowledge of the cruise product is satisfied by advertising and direct marketing. Cruises will go the way of the airlines. Unfortunately, this "cutting out of the middle man" will not be good for travel agents, who are already working very hard for meager commissions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I disagree. The client should ask the CRUISE LINE for the price > discount. > And if price is critical, the client can shop until the lowest retail > price and cheapest travel agent is found. And then, good luck – you’ll > get what you pay for. > Your email is snotty and mean. "Welcome to America." What a stupid > line! > You say she can try for increased prices for incremental service. > Wrong. > A broad section of travels agencies across your America do receive and > retain the full commission paid by the cruise lines. It is not a > widespread practice to toss in or kick back – because hard working and > long term agencies can receive very attractive cruise rates – and with > specialization and high unit volume, actually receive higher > commission rates than many agencies. > In the airline side, those clients who use travel agents are being > charged service fees because the airlines cut the commissions > drastically. Those clients don’t ask for discounts – they understand > the realities. > The "niche" that is appearing in this subject, as you insist, is a > number of cruise prospects who find it critical to spend the least > money possible on a trip. There are some lines who specialize in > serving them (let’s not into rapping the bulk cruise lines) and there > are agencies who promote only on price – and the quality of their work > – including breath of knowledge – reflects how they use their meager > income. > You want, fine. But travel agents are doing something the cruise lines > presently can not do for the same % ratio to gross sales. The cruise > lines want them – and court them. There is little compelling reason > for agencies to toss back, even to cheapos like you. I’ve never seen > client loyalty come from that kind of business practice in the agency > business. > Itis, you keep on charging for your work. Let the guys who want to > "deal" do their deal somewhere else. You don’t need their business.
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> 5. Each consumer must find the right balance between the amount of work > he is willing to do himself in terms of research and monitoring a > booking for rate reductions, vs. how much commission he wants back. > Five percent from a full service TA is normal. Ten percent from Sam’s > is better, but you had better be on the ball. Make sure you keep final > payment dates in mind, and monitor the market yourself for reductions > you might qualify for. Is it worth the savings? Let the consumer be > the judge.
If the price and other factors are acceptable I will book. If the price is too high I don’t book. I have a pretty good idea what the prices are for the cruises I am booking. I know what I am willing to pay. I don’t ask the TA to rebate me commission. The method they use to get an acceptable price I will pay does not concern me, whether they are rebating, or if they get a good price from the cruise line because of their agency, or whether they are smart enough to ask for all the resident and DSM specials or whatever.
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Charles, You got it. That’s the bottom line. Who cares where the deal comes from? Most likely from commission but other sources are there too. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 5. Each consumer must find the right balance between the amount of work > he is willing to do himself in terms of research and monitoring a > booking for rate reductions, vs. how much commission he wants back. > Five percent from a full service TA is normal. Ten percent from Sam’s > is better, but you had better be on the ball. Make sure you keep final > payment dates in mind, and monitor the market yourself for reductions > you might qualify for. Is it worth the savings? Let the consumer be > the judge. > If the price and other factors are acceptable I will book. If the price is > too high I don’t book. I have a pretty good idea what the prices are for the > cruises I am booking. I know what I am willing to pay. I don’t ask the TA to > rebate me commission. The method they use to get an acceptable price I will > pay does not concern me, whether they are rebating, or if they get a good > price from the cruise line because of their agency, or whether they are > smart enough to ask for all the resident and DSM specials or whatever.
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> <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> > <html> > Most attorneys should work for free.</html>
Let me juxtapose another of your comments from later in this thread: "Your email is snotty and mean. "Welcome to America." What a stupid line! " You seem to relish smart-ass sarcasm when it deals with someone else’s occupation. Ever hear the term, "he can dish it out but he can’t take it"? — "If this is tea, please bring me some coffee. If this is coffee, please bring me some tea." - Abraham Lincoln Before you buy.
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>2. The only reason the cruise lines don’t give commissions to consumers >directly is that the pressure from the TA community selling their >product would be overwhelming.
You don’t think greed has anything to do with this? Why should they rebate if you pay it anyway? It means more profit dollars in their pockets. And, it’s pure profit too. >The increase in overall sales generated by lower prices can more >than offset losses on commission.
So why don’t the lines do this? Their marketing people must not have figured this one out yet? Also, you seem to have the same bad info as so many others. Most agents don’t set their commission and a huge percent are paid hourly and don’t even get commission. The only agents that can give a true "rebate" (vs a built in one) of commission are owner/operators. Most rebates are a marketing tool used to push the consumer over the edge and buy. Their strokin’ them pal. They don’t even know it and they like it. It’s one of the oldest games in the book. "I want to drive the Zamboni, I want to drive the Zamboni. . . yes I do"
Response:
**** John,
> Some observations: > 1. TA’s get sensitive about this topic because it means money out of > their pocket, food off the table.
Doubtful much food being taken off tables since very rare for a travel agent to be doing travel as a sole income or even large part of income. Look at who your T/As are for the most part. Retirees, youngsters looking for some travel, travelers in other fields that have adequate free time to pursue part time, and so forth. Even agency owners are most often 1 or 2 desk operations that THEY spend the most time at the desk working diligently. >But the fact remains that cruises are > *mostly* a commodity product on the same ship and sailing date and > consumers have motivation to shop for the best deal, including > commission rebates.
No argument there. > 2. The only reason the cruise lines don’t give commissions to consumers > directly is that the pressure from the TA community selling their > product would be overwhelming.
Yes and no. Yes one of the motivators is not wanting to disrupt the current distribution system. The no part comes in that should online direct booking ever become real big I have no doubt that the line will not lower rates by the commission portion. The amount of employees and infrastructure needed to handle online booking will be there cause for maintaing the same if not higher price structure. > Look at Renaissance. Even though they > play along now there is still a lingering bad taste in many agents’ > mouths. I think this situation will continue for the near future, > because there is still imperfect knowledge among many first time > cruisers out there who need to be "sold". Once that need evaporates and > advertising is sufficient to market cabins, the need for TAs decreases > and we will see more direct bookings, like the airlines. There is a > good article in today’s New York Times about Web sites that search for > great last minute deals. All these bypass the TA. And in many cases, > the airfares quoted are "Internet-0nly" rates. If you use a TA to book, > or even the airline’s own reservation agents, the savings (commission > rebates in a sense) dissapear.
From recent news article. "The front-runners so far are Internet travel sites such as Travelocity (1999 revenue $64.2 million) and Expedia ($38.7 million). Like many Internet companies, neither one has been able to turn a profit, and continued losses could impair their ability to pour new investment into the fight." Travel internet sites are folding faster than straw houses in wolf country. > 4. The increase in overall sales generated by lower prices can more > than offset losses on commission. Look at the big boys, like Sam’s > Club. I quit using them seven years ago because their service left > something to be desired, but they do make a nice little profit on their > shaved commissions.
I believe I just read the other day that they had QUIETLY closed down their travel operation, no dinero! If it wasn’t them then it was the other big warehouse operation. But I do think it was them, anyone know for a fact? George in NY
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>>The increase in overall sales generated by lower prices can more >than offset losses on commission. >So why don’t the lines do this? Their marketing people must not have figured >this one out yet?
They still cannot afford to alienate the Travel Agencies. There are still at least 90% of the (American) people out there that have never taken a cruise. That’s a lot of potential first timers. Many of those do need to have their hands held through the process, if and when they book their first cruise. Russ
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The last time I went to a doctor – he told me I had 15 min. (after waiting for him for 3hrs.) – he got $100. – i got nothing! Never got a reduction when I researched my rare disease on the web & told him what it was when he informed me that he never heard of it. What doctor has their salary cut 50% in this flourishing economy. Compare salaries of doctors vs agents! Now a bit of business for all – you pay more on taxes & govt.fees than what agents make – on some tkts. it’s triple. When you cancel – do you ever get it refunded?