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There's too much room in coach…
Question:
>on the internet and find a flight to europe for about 900 dollars, i would be >willing to pay 1500 for another couple of inches in width and pitch. that is to >say i would gladly pay about 60 percent more for about 10 per cent more floor >space. the airlines however, make that prohibitive. they will sell me the seat >for 5,200, or first class for about 9,000, both of which are completely >unreasonable.
I have found that the best deals on FC or business are FF upgrades from a coach ticket. The price works out to a fraction of what you would pay out of pocket. Alan Gore | is like giving whiskey and car keys Software For PC’s | to teenaged boys" – P. J. O’Rourke http://www.alangore.com
Response:
>will be someone who recognizes that i also have enough money. wouldn’t it be >wonderful if there were some class such as coach plus, where all the airlines >did was give you an additional three inches in front and one and a half more
BR does this in EVergreen DEluxe class. You get more than 3"/1.5", and it costs less than that 50% you ask. They still make money just fine. Ed R.
Response:
>When John Grotland took his seat on a recent Continental Airlines >Newark-to-San Francisco flight, the first thing he noticed was that >something was missing.
Funny, I like the new seats on CO. The winged head rest is a real plus! -Erik
Response:
it is true that the airlines think that their passenger is only interested in price, and quite frankly, most are. unfortunately, they offer no alternative. after our last return from europe with my knees against the seat in front for ten hours, i vowed that i would never travel steerage again, and i don’t have to. this year we are taking a flight to and from europe and we have cashed in our mileage to travel business class. on the internet and find a flight to europe for about 900 dollars, i would be willing to pay 1500 for another couple of inches in width and pitch. that is to say i would gladly pay about 60 percent more for about 10 per cent more floor space. the airlines however, make that prohibitive. they will sell me the seat for 5,200, or first class for about 9,000, both of which are completely unreasonable. the upshot of this is that next time when i am ready to go, if i don’t have enough miles, i’ll buy some, and they will have another non-rev seat occupied in business class rather than receiving a reasonable price. it will be like all the other seats in business class and first class. if they would put their business seats on sale as they do with their other seats, they would at least be taking in some money, but rather than that, they are now expanding their business classes for upgrading people rather than trying to make money. it is interesting though, that they want to make friends by upgrading to business class while they are making far more enemies by packing cattle cars. they also worry about air rage, and yet cannot understand why it passengers within inadequate space for many hours. i am a big man, but there are many much bigger than i. for my 200 pound 6′1" frame there are many taller and wider who are even more angry. i don’t know which airline is the worst, but do know that i avoid united at Alaska whenever possible (even when more costly) because they give me adequate knee room. unfortunately, alaska does not go east and west, or international to europe, since they seem to be the only line which understands that there can be something like customer loyalty. will be someone who recognizes that i also have enough money. wouldn’t it be wonderful if there were some class such as coach plus, where all the airlines did was give you an additional three inches in front and one and a half more – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Adding fuel to the fire over the complaints about the lack of adequate space > By Christopher Elliott > Special to ABCNEWS.com > When John Grotland took his seat on a recent Continental Airlines > Newark-to-San Francisco flight, the first thing he noticed was that > something was missing. > But he didn’t know what until the passenger behind him grabbed a > magazine from the seat pocket. "That’s when I felt it," says the Cedar > Knolls, N.J.-based manager for a wireless communications company. "My seat > was as thin as a hammock. I could feel the guy behind me lowering his tray > table, putting his knees into my back. And I could hear every word he was > saying." > Grotland also noticed that there seemed to be even more passengers than > usual in the main cabin. "The airline is trying to cram more people on the > plane," he complains. "I would almost prefer being in a kennel." > Continental acknowledges that it redesigned its economy class cabins, > but insists that it didn’t add any new seats. > Meet the ‘Slimline’ > Welcome to the latest fad in airline design. By using new composite > materials and modern ergonomics, manufacturers are reducing the thickness of > their steerage-class seatbacks by as much as 40 percent. Instead of passing > the additional pitch (airline-ese for legroom) to their cramped passengers, > however, most airlines are just installing more seats. > There are notable exceptions. Vanguard Airlines, a Mission, Kan.-based > carrier, is actually eliminating a row of cattle car seats. The late Kiwi > International, a regional airline that was based in Newark, left the extra > space on its Boeing 727s for travelers. Same for British Airways’ economy > class, which features new sculpted seats in its Boeing 777s. > But the major American carriers see the innovations, dubbed "slimline" > or "high-density back" seats, as an opportunity to boost their capacity. > More than half of the economy class seats in the United States have quietly > been converted during the last year, and the rest are expected to change > over by 2002. > No one is more puzzled by the trend than Heather Baldwin, editor of > Aircraft Interiors magazine in Reston, Va. "It doesn’t make any sense," she > told me. "Passengers have been complaining louder and louder about the fact > that they’re cramped in economy class." > But of course it does make sense. Or should I say cents? > Passing the Bucks > The Federal Aviation Administration is considering new rules that would > force carriers to upgrade the sturdiness of their seats. Older airline seats > can withstand an impact force equal to nine times the force of gravity > (denoted as 9 g’s in industry parlance); the FAA wants the new seats to > handle 16 g’s. > The FAA estimates the total retrofitting cost at $950.5 million, and > the airlines aren’t planning to get stuck with the bill. > "This allows airlines to put additional seats into the economy class > section without sacrificing any living space," says Sean Prendergast, a vice > president for Brice Manufacturing’s seating group in Pacoima, Calif. "More > seats mean that the new seats pay for themselves faster. But there are > comfort issues." > Profit vs. Comfort > Peter Dixon, a senior partner with New York design consultant Lippincott & > Margulies, agrees. And he ought to know. Not only is he a frequent traveler, > but he’s also a consultant to Continental Airlines. "The airlines want the > minimally accepted comfort in their seats while packing as many people into > the main cabin." > Adds Marco Lanza, an executive vice president for B/E Aerospace in > Wellington, Fla., the world’s largest seat manufacturer, "The airlines don’t > see much reason to give passengers more room." > The airlines do see a reason to keep their "redesign" under wraps. Why? > Imagine if word got out that the carriers were cramming even more cattle > into their main cabin. Never mind all of the other issues that come with > increased capacity, from cabin air quality to overall safety (imagine trying > to evacuate a plane where everyone’s wedged in). > I’ve got just one question: Where does this end? At what point do the > airlines say "enough"? When does passenger comfort become more important > than the carrier’s profit? > Maybe our airlines just don’t know when to say when. > Christopher Elliott, a k a The Crabby Traveler, is a writer based in > Annapolis, Md. His column appears on Tuesdays.
Response:
Adding fuel to the fire over the complaints about the lack of adequate space By Christopher Elliott Special to ABCNEWS.com When John Grotland took his seat on a recent Continental Airlines Newark-to-San Francisco flight, the first thing he noticed was that something was missing. But he didn’t know what until the passenger behind him grabbed a magazine from the seat pocket. "That’s when I felt it," says the Cedar Knolls, N.J.-based manager for a wireless communications company. "My seat was as thin as a hammock. I could feel the guy behind me lowering his tray table, putting his knees into my back. And I could hear every word he was saying." Grotland also noticed that there seemed to be even more passengers than usual in the main cabin. "The airline is trying to cram more people on the plane," he complains. "I would almost prefer being in a kennel." Continental acknowledges that it redesigned its economy class cabins, but insists that it didn’t add any new seats. Meet the ‘Slimline’ Welcome to the latest fad in airline design. By using new composite materials and modern ergonomics, manufacturers are reducing the thickness of their steerage-class seatbacks by as much as 40 percent. Instead of passing the additional pitch (airline-ese for legroom) to their cramped passengers, however, most airlines are just installing more seats. There are notable exceptions. Vanguard Airlines, a Mission, Kan.-based carrier, is actually eliminating a row of cattle car seats. The late Kiwi International, a regional airline that was based in Newark, left the extra space on its Boeing 727s for travelers. Same for British Airways’ economy class, which features new sculpted seats in its Boeing 777s. But the major American carriers see the innovations, dubbed "slimline" or "high-density back" seats, as an opportunity to boost their capacity. More than half of the economy class seats in the United States have quietly been converted during the last year, and the rest are expected to change over by 2002. No one is more puzzled by the trend than Heather Baldwin, editor of Aircraft Interiors magazine in Reston, Va. "It doesn’t make any sense," she told me. "Passengers have been complaining louder and louder about the fact that they’re cramped in economy class." But of course it does make sense. Or should I say cents? Passing the Bucks The Federal Aviation Administration is considering new rules that would force carriers to upgrade the sturdiness of their seats. Older airline seats can withstand an impact force equal to nine times the force of gravity (denoted as 9 g’s in industry parlance); the FAA wants the new seats to handle 16 g’s. The FAA estimates the total retrofitting cost at $950.5 million, and the airlines aren’t planning to get stuck with the bill. "This allows airlines to put additional seats into the economy class section without sacrificing any living space," says Sean Prendergast, a vice president for Brice Manufacturing’s seating group in Pacoima, Calif. "More seats mean that the new seats pay for themselves faster. But there are comfort issues." Profit vs. Comfort Peter Dixon, a senior partner with New York design consultant Lippincott & Margulies, agrees. And he ought to know. Not only is he a frequent traveler, but he’s also a consultant to Continental Airlines. "The airlines want the minimally accepted comfort in their seats while packing as many people into the main cabin." Adds Marco Lanza, an executive vice president for B/E Aerospace in Wellington, Fla., the world’s largest seat manufacturer, "The airlines don’t see much reason to give passengers more room." The airlines do see a reason to keep their "redesign" under wraps. Why? Imagine if word got out that the carriers were cramming even more cattle into their main cabin. Never mind all of the other issues that come with increased capacity, from cabin air quality to overall safety (imagine trying to evacuate a plane where everyone’s wedged in). I’ve got just one question: Where does this end? At what point do the airlines say "enough"? When does passenger comfort become more important than the carrier’s profit? Maybe our airlines just don’t know when to say when. Christopher Elliott, a k a The Crabby Traveler, is a writer based in Annapolis, Md. His column appears on Tuesdays.