Business History Books » Business Consultant » RJ at ORF
RJ at ORF
Question:
> Rich, if your carrier shuts down, empty seats out of ORF will be few and > far between.
What do you mean by "my carrier"??? Rich
Response:
Rich, if your carrier shuts down, empty seats out of ORF will be few and far between.
Response:
Blauerenzian, the answer to your point, if you read the 1998 consultant’s report, is both. ORF has been traditional a high fare airport, especially walkup. It has only been when we have had the occassional low fare entry (PeopleExpress, Cal Lite, the original AirTran) that the existing carriers have lowered their fares to compete. Given the brevity of those operations, and what happened when they existed, the NAA has been going full bore after WN. There is an entire section in the report on RJs. CO’s ORF-EWR service was the one route specifically mentioned: we’d love to up frequency to their hub. The report implies that RJs will be our bread and butter in the years to come. I wasn’t familiar with BEX ORF-BOS: it must have been very "early 90s" as I’ve lived in Virginia Beach since October,1992. The restaurant location you mentioned was temporary with the construction: when the entire project is finished by 2002, there will be a Food Court that our better local eateries are already leasing space for. As you have an interest in ORF, you might want to try contacting them from their website to see if you can get a copy of the 1998 Executive Summary of the consultant’s report. (I have one.)
Response:
SNIP > Ironic that you and Rich were the ones to respond as US is by far the > largest carrier at ORF (38% share to DL’s 21%): which has had The > Virginian-Pilot already running stories on what a shutdown would do to > us.
I’m still trying to figure out what the connection is….. Rich
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Robert, definitely wasn’t a CO tail. > Now that you tell me about the DL swap, that’s who it sounds like. > I found out about UA Express yesterday when I got my MWAA timetable. > They had been running hourly J41s ORF-IAD. They’re now going to 8x Daily > ORF-IAD, alternating CRJs with J41s every other flight. > This all says something about the herd mentality of the airline > business: in 1998 a consultant’s report for the Norfolk Airport > Authority (NAA) showed ORF as being prime ground as a RJ market. (It > would give us jet frequency we don’t have on most routes now.) > Copies were sent to airlines nearly 2 years ago with emphasis being > placed on where carriers could help themselves at ORF. Nothing happened, > now 3 carriers bring in RJs at once.
It may not exactly be an RJ, but back in the early 90s (91-92), BixExp used to fly BAE146 4 times a day ORF-BOS. Also, Comair did fly RJs into ORF, say about 1996. ORF was one of Comair’s very first markets for the RJ. But then DL took over the route. (ORF_CVG) > UA Express puts even more pressure on Trans States to upgrade to RJs on > ORF-JFK: now both UA Express (IAD) and American Eagle (BOS) will have RJ > service to trans-Atlantic connections.
With all the construction going on (as a side note-too bad they took out that sit down resturant in the lobby—can’t find many airports these days that have a full service resturant), and the building of the new concourse, I think that ORF is aiming for WN, and not too interesed in RJs. Before you buy.
Response:
Didn’t see the CO Press Release, but the ‘98 NAA Report specifically cited CO ORF-EWR as a RJ route to up frequency to CO’s hub. However, CO is expanding RJ hub service in the order CLE, EWR, IAH. ASA is starting RJ service from 4 Southern locations to LGA but we were passed over. Ironic that you and Rich were the ones to respond as US is by far the largest carrier at ORF (38% share to DL’s 21%): which has had The Virginian-Pilot already running stories on what a shutdown would do to us.
Response:
> Did you see the CO press release yesterday about starting 100 RJ flights > out of LGA in the next couple years? ORF was one of the markets that > was mentioned. It is true there are major oppportunities for the RJ at > ORF. If only my company (US) sis not have such a restrictive scope > clause I am sure there are some markets out of ORF that would be perfect > for the RJ. I was thinking that ORF-BOS would have been one of them.
You’re making a huge assumption that has implications. You’re assuming that CO is automatically going to fly all these routes. The problem here is that CO currently has NO authority to serve them. Note the line in their press release: "Today, the carrier also filed an application with the U.S. Department of Transportation for the slot authority necessary to begin this service." Meaning, we haven’t gotten the slots but we’re going to thump our chests nonetheless. While there is to be some slack in the slot allocation at LGA, DOT is really going to have to examine whether 100 flights is going to crete chaos at LGA. Its already a VERY cramped airport with departures taking anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes. Rich
Response:
Did you see the CO press release yesterday about starting 100 RJ flights out of LGA in the next couple years? ORF was one of the markets that was mentioned. It is true there are major oppportunities for the RJ at ORF. If only my company (US) sis not have such a restrictive scope clause I am sure there are some markets out of ORF that would be perfect for the RJ. I was thinking that ORF-BOS would have been one of them. But there are no plans for that in the forseeable future. Maybe DL will come in with ACA jet to BOS next year. I could also possibly see further DL expansion at ORF in the RJ market to CVG. I think there is room for another frequency provided it is on an RJ. CO EXP will be going RJ on their CLE flights pretty soon too. They do One RJ on saturdays in place of a mainline jet to EWR. So long as they keep the AT7 I think EWR will be prop though. Rob
: Robert, definitely wasn’t a CO tail. : Now that you tell me about the DL swap, that’s who it sounds like. : I found out about UA Express yesterday when I got my MWAA timetable. : They had been running hourly J41s ORF-IAD. They’re now going to 8x Daily : ORF-IAD, alternating CRJs with J41s every other flight. : This all says something about the herd mentality of the airline : business: in 1998 a consultant’s report for the Norfolk Airport : Authority (NAA) showed ORF as being prime ground as a RJ market. (It : would give us jet frequency we don’t have on most routes now.) : Copies were sent to airlines nearly 2 years ago with emphasis being : placed on where carriers could help themselves at ORF. Nothing happened, : now 3 carriers bring in RJs at once. : UA Express puts even more pressure on Trans States to upgrade to RJs on : ORF-JFK: now both UA Express (IAD) and American Eagle (BOS) will have RJ : service to trans-Atlantic connections.
Response:
Robert, definitely wasn’t a CO tail. Now that you tell me about the DL swap, that’s who it sounds like. I found out about UA Express yesterday when I got my MWAA timetable. They had been running hourly J41s ORF-IAD. They’re now going to 8x Daily ORF-IAD, alternating CRJs with J41s every other flight. This all says something about the herd mentality of the airline business: in 1998 a consultant’s report for the Norfolk Airport Authority (NAA) showed ORF as being prime ground as a RJ market. (It would give us jet frequency we don’t have on most routes now.) Copies were sent to airlines nearly 2 years ago with emphasis being placed on where carriers could help themselves at ORF. Nothing happened, now 3 carriers bring in RJs at once. UA Express puts even more pressure on Trans States to upgrade to RJs on ORF-JFK: now both UA Express (IAD) and American Eagle (BOS) will have RJ service to trans-Atlantic connections.
Response:
Not exactly sure but it could have been UA express they are planning on adding RJ service on the ORF-IAD route very soon. Also next month AA Eagle is planning RJ service 3x daily to BOS. And in May Comair is planning RJ replacement on a DL CVG flight soon (MAY) as well It could also have been an equipment swap by CO. Perhaps the AT7 was out for maintenance and they substituted the ERJ for that particular flight rob
I was walking out of the terminal at ORF Monday afternoon when I heard a roar to my side and saw a RJ taking off. The unusual thing is that nobody has yet to fly scheduled RJ service out of ORF. I could see the white fuselage and blue tail (DL Connection?) but it was too distant to read the lettering. Could it have been a charter? Would ASA or Comair try bringing one in here before announcing scheduled service? (There is nothing on the DL website on it.)
Response:
One more piece: there were 2 horizontal red stripes on the tail. The plot thickens: in this morning’s Virginian-Pilot there was an ad for American Eagle ORF-BOS nonstop service to begin 4/3, 3x daily (2x on 7) using EMJ-135s. Does that sound like their color scheme? (It was about the right size.) The other possibility (which may now be an inevitability) is that Trans States will have to match the RJs on their ORF-JFK route (they now have J41s) not to be at a competitive disadvantage (i.e. trans-Atlantic traffic connecting at BOS rather than JFK).
Response:
I was walking out of the terminal at ORF Monday afternoon when I heard a roar to my side and saw a RJ taking off. The unusual thing is that nobody has yet to fly scheduled RJ service out of ORF. I could see the white fuselage and blue tail (DL Connection?) but it was too distant to read the lettering. Could it have been a charter? Would ASA or Comair try bringing one in here before announcing scheduled service? (There is nothing on the DL website on it.)