Business History Books » Business Consultant » Music bussines and the internet.!! Can any one help me ?
Music bussines and the internet.!! Can any one help me ?
Question:
"> > Ok lets start again , maybe we have got off on the wrong foot here , let me come back at you next year after the project meeting with Warners when we will be deciding our whole marketing plan. I admit to be very ignorant to proffessional marketing , that is why I am here looking for tips advice, idea’s anything I can , I have a funny way of not trusting Record companies . The reason I am a her manager is we discovered her and are all signed to a production deal meaning we, meaning me and my partner and the said singer are all equal partners in the deal , ie she sings , writes performs , we manage , look out for and run the company …. The internet is all up to us to utilise in as much as Warners seem to be ignoring it and leaving it to us to manage and i didnt want to mess up . Thats why I am here seeing whats available … There is a press blackout on her at the minute and she is completley unknown as yet and i can apreciate that many , many pop stars come and go and there is no reason why you should think we will be any other . I can only say that they have already spent close to a million pounds over the two years she has been with warners ….and there are high hopes for her . if you dont mind i would like to send you to our web page when she is launched and then it will be up to you . Sorry if you thought i was being rude but I am confident in her ability and will sing her praise at every oppurtunity . I am using a personal connection to write these and dont mean to hide my identity Foxtown Productions Ltd Leicester England Danny Townsend
Response:
> >>Who are you ? > Why are you so perfect ?
It’s just a natural condition. Genetic. > Why do you bother trying to put other people down ?
When you try to hype people who write hype and refuse to answer questions of professional consultants but expect free advice from them in return, you’ve got to expect a backlash. > She has been recording with some of the best > producers in the world…
Really? Prove it. Who is she? > …all over the world…
Prove it. Where? > …and they say she has a killer voice not just me so its not > hype…
Prove it. Who are "they"? > …but i would rather not have you reply to my post
Then you shouldn’t have posted a reply to my post. > I have made a mistake > expecting you to miss the chance to > show the rest of the group just how much > of a smart arse you really are .
You want advice but you refuse to give enough information to give us a meaning take on your situation. You then use hyperbole to make your case and forget exactly what newsgroup audience you’re writing to. You’re either a fraud or an idiot. I pity your singer client … saying you actually have one. > i hope you see us soon in the top 100 > and i hope for our sake that we dont > give you the satisfaction you would obviously > have if we fail.
Sorry, I really won’t remember you past when your thread expires on this newsgroup. And, even if I did (which I won’t), it would be quite hard for me to see you in the Top 100 when you refuse to let us know who your singer client is. Oh, I forgot. That isn’t important. Minor detail. Better yet, let’s just assume you told us that you were already in the Top 100 and we believed you. Scott T. Jensen — Like to help advance science? Volunteer your computer for folding-protein research for when it’s idle. Go to http://foldingathome.stanford.edu/ to sign up your computer.
Response:
> "> > Ok lets start again , > maybe we have got off on the wrong foot here
We just respond to your posts…but sure, I’ll bite. > let me come back at you next > year after the project meeting with Warners when we will be deciding our > whole marketing plan.
Wouldn’t you look better if you went in there with some good well-defined ideas of what you wanted? I mean, they’re not a mom and pop operation – I’m guessing they’ll be able to tell your skill and knowledge level when it comes to business and marketing issues. > I admit to be very ignorant to proffessional marketing , that is why I am > here looking for tips advice, idea’s anything I can
And as I said, I think the Warner people will know that quickly and have the advantage on you. If it were me, I wouldn’t want to be in that position. > I have a funny way of > not trusting Record companies .
They want to make lots of money. The less they pay out to you, the more they make. The more informed and prepared you are, the better your chances of negotiating a good arrangement. > The reason I am a her manager is we > discovered her and are all signed to a production deal meaning we, meaning > me and my partner and the said singer are all equal partners in the deal , > ie she sings , writes performs , we manage , look out for and run the > company ….
I think this has been our sticking point in previous posts. How are you managing, looking out for her, and running the company? You admit to being ignorant about marketing, yet you haven’t told us that you’re doing anything to get help other than posting in this group. Is it that you’re strapped for cash until the royalties start pouring in? Or do you just not want to spend any money getting help in areas where you are weak and can not help your singer to the extent you should. Going into a meeting where you’ll "be deciding your whole marketing plan" without some serious preparation and some professional advice seems quite unprofessional to me, and I think it will to the record company, too. Once they’ve decided that about you, you’ll be stuck with that label forever. On the other hand if you show up with serious well-thought-out ideas, projections, plans, whatever, that would project a whole different image of you, wouldn’t it? > The internet is all up to us to utilise in as much as Warners seem to be > ignoring it and leaving it to us to manage and i didnt want to mess up . > Thats why I am here seeing whats available …
It’s a fine place to get some input. But this is a newsgroup. It provides free advice from people in their spare time. Even though a number of us here are marketing professionals, you’ve got to understand that what you get here is not the same thing as I would be providing you as a paying client in terms of depth and time invested. > There is a press blackout on > her at the minute and she is completley unknown as yet and i can apreciate > that many , many pop stars come and go and there is no reason why you should > think we will be any other . I can only say that they have already spent > close to a million pounds over the two years she has been with warners > ….and there are high hopes for her .
What have they spent this money on? Of course there are high hopes…as I’ve said before, no-one signs talent they think will fail. But I’ll repeat my point about marketing being the difference between successes and failures in the music biz, not talent. That’s why I worry about your situation… > if you dont mind i would like to send you to our web page when she is > launched and then it will be up to you . Sorry if you > thought i was being rude but I am confident in her ability and will sing her > praise at every oppurtunity . > I am using a personal connection to write these and dont mean to hide my > identity > Foxtown Productions Ltd > Leicester England > Danny Townsend
Good luck! — George Demmer – President Reality Marketing Associates Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada Phone: (604)944-8603 Fax: (604)944-4708 "Everything your business does is marketing. We help you do it better."
Response:
>>Who are you ?
Why are you so perfect ? Why do you bother trying to put other people down ? She has been recording with some of the best producers in the world , all over the world and they say she has a killer voice not just me so its not hype but i would rather not have you reply to my post I have made a mistake expecting you to miss the chance to show the rest of the group just how much of a smart arse you really are . i hope you see us soon in the top 100 and i hope for our sake that we dont give you the satisfaction you would obviously have if we fail. Danny
Response:
>>Who are you ?
Even though your reply appeared under Scott’s post, I’ll take the liberty of assuming that you meant both of us, since we’ve both been responding to you. I think it’s fairly obvious from our responses to you, my signature, Scott’s recent description of his background in response to a post in MEM, and our respective posts in the newsgroup that we are professional marketing/business consultants. In addition, we both sign our full names to all of our posts. You on the other hand haven’t done that, and in fact have been quite secretive in your posts. So who are YOU? > Why are you so perfect ? > Why do you bother trying to put other people down ?
I know I’m not perfect. I won’t speak for Scott, but he doesn’t seem like the sort who thinks he is perfect either. I don’t think we put people down, but we do both put bad marketing and poor business practices down with regularity. If you want a pat on the back, talk to your spouse or your mom; we assume that people looking for advice actually want advice, and they want it to be honest advice, not sugar-coated sweetness-and-light feel-good-about-yourself (a.k.a. useless) advice. > She has been recording with some of the best producers in the world , all > over the world and they say she has a killer voice not just me so its not > hype
Just because other people say it too (and of course we only have your word for it) doesn’t mean it’s not hype. Danny, you have to realize that every producer thinks every one of their proteges will be the next Madonna/’N Sync/Rolling Stones/whatever…if you thought they were talentless losers, presumably you wouldn’t sign them up. But you also have to step back and look at the big picture: the simple reality is that very VERY few of them ever become stars, and most that do last a very VERY short time. The world is strewn with one-hit-wonders. That’s reality, Danny, and I hope (for your singers’ sake, not yours) that she is a huge hit – if she is talented, she deserves it. But the reality of the music business is that marketing is the key to success these days, not talent. (No need to look any farther than the Spice Girls for confirmation, although most of the top "talent" has very little of it.) And judging by your posts, obviously both Scott and I were somewhat sceptical of the marketing you were going to provide. You don’t have to agree…I’m just telling you what I saw. > but i would rather not have you reply to my post I have made a mistake > expecting you to miss the chance to show the rest of the group just how much > of a smart arse you really are .
I’m sorry you feel that way. You came here looking for free advice, and perhaps even for free services judging by your last post. And you expect this to compete with the multi-million dollar publicity machines that most top acts have behind them, since you expect your singer will soon be one of them. Now, if pointing this out to you is being a "smart arse" in your book, then I definitely wish you luck in your ongoing search for good, free marketing from someone who won’t tell you any truths you don’t want to hear. There are lots of people out there who will be happy to kiss your "arse" with regularity, they just aren’t professional marketers. If that’s your preference, you deserve what you’ll get from them. Unfortunately, your singer doesn’t…and she’s the one I’m more concerned about. This is about her career and her dreams, and I don’t see your attitude helping her as much as it could… > i hope you see us soon in the top 100 and i hope for our sake that we dont > give you the satisfaction you would obviously have if we fail. > Danny
Danny, we won’t know will we (since you haven’t told us who she is)? And I certainly don’t want to see her fail. That’s why I took the time to think about the situation you posted and write you two extensive replies. On the other hand, you haven’t told us who she is. You’ve made high claims without any evidence whatsoever. You’ve shown very little understanding of the real world of marketing and publicity you’re entering. You’ve managed to sound very selfish in your interest throughout your posts, rather than showing us that you’re looking out for your singer. Even in your closing sentence you say "see US soon in the top 100" and "if WE fail". Now as I mentioned before, I used to be a professional musician and I’m aware that a good producer is important (you said you owned a production company, although you haven’t exactly clarified your role in her career), but if she really is as talented as you say, the producer becomes quite secondary. Now Danny, maybe you’re a really nice talented guy. Maybe you really are looking out for your singer’s best interests (instead of protecting your own reputation). Maybe you’re a great producer with a keen eye for talent. But you need to understand that you really haven’t shown any of those qualities in your posts here. And that’s all we have to go on. Sorry if you didn’t like the reflection it provided you. — George Demmer – President Reality Marketing Associates Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada Phone: (604)944-8603 Fax: (604)944-4708 "Everything your business does is marketing. We help you do it better."
Response:
> telling you who she is wouldn’t give you any more info than you > already have…
Gosh, what a profound statement. We won’t know anymore about her than what you tell us and you won’t tell us more thus … [Scott rolls his eyes.] Then again, maybe you’re just saying she’s nothing unique. Just another cookie-cutter flash-in-the-pan pop singer … and probably not even a flash in the end. > …and would also undermine my company a little by making us > look ignorant to running her business properly so there is no > point sighing!
Look ignorant to who? The few that frequent this newsgroup? And Heaven forbid you admit that you’re not perfect. Now, just relax and tell us. The more we know, the more we can help. > We were looking for any ideas of raising revenue and her > profile , a bit like EMI are doing with their acts and working > with msn.
Then you should have said this in your original post instead of making us guess what you wanted help with. > She is set for a single release early 2001 and will be a chart > style R&B act with a killer diva voice…
Save the hyperbole for the press and fans. You’re talking to marketers here. > …I cant really liken it to any other star around > as no one is close but the company call her little Whitney !!!
Wow!!! Three explanation marks. It must be true then. > if you wanted to help i am looking for companies to join us > with the web straterjies as We have worked hard at keeping > control over the last few years and were never going to give > away her web rights for nothing …… we would like to see if we > could sign them a bit like her publishing and her recording…
Clarify this one for me. Rights to what non-recording, non-publishing revenue this singer will be generating on the web? > she will be around for a long time we are confident of that…
You mean she’s going to last more than a week in the Top 100? Wow, I’m impressed. No, no, no need to explain why you think your golden goose will keep laying eggs when the vast majority never do. That you have confidence in her is all that matters and is all we need to know. > …and the web will be instrumental in > keeping her at the top I am sure of that.
Why are you sure of that? Scott T. Jensen
Response:
> Thanks for getting back > Scott and George > telling you who she is wouldn’t give you any more info than you already have > and would also undermine my company a little by making us look ignorant to > running her business properly so there is no point sighing!.
Well, Danny, I must admit that the thought has crossed my mind that seeking advice in newsgroups so close to the release date for such a major undertaking is not the most thorough and professional of artist management strategies… > We have a > fairley good idea what we want to acheive on the internet , raising her > profile and atracting new fans , media attention and collecting a good list > of interested email adresses to target future straterjies , like tours and > singles and feedback from all ove rthe world . And also being able to get > close to the fans with web cams and web chats and other stuff exclusive to > her fans that obtain membership to her fan club
That’s a pretty long list of goals. I can’t tell from what you’ve written whether you have any idea what a huge undertaking it is to set up, maintain, and market such a site. Many serious e-commerce websites have teams of full-time people to run and maintain them. Also, charging money for premium fan club privileges for a new artist might be a bit risky: it will reduce participation (over free membership) and yet, if you don’t get enough members, you’re kind of stuck providing the premium services at a loss. > And regarding the Record > label being able to do the job better , Warner uk have an awful stratejy on > the web , they are actually non existent . We retained the rights because > When we asked for the money to build a site thinking it would be like any > other form of publicity like magazine and such they said they would only > give us help if the owned it !!
As I mentioned in my original reply, you may have shown some wisdom in retaining control, but not if you don’t do a professional job for her yourself-by hiring professionals to do it. Having been a professional musician myself, I’m a little wary of your intent-are you looking out for her or yourself? I know a lot of managers cross that fine line from mentor/protector to parasite/leech. I’m not accusing you…I’m just wondering at this point. > We were looking for any ideas of raising revenue and her profile , a bit > like EMI are doing with their acts and working with msn.
Marketing is more of an investment situation at the beginning, especially with a new "product" like you have. The returns on investment only happen if you do a good job of marketing and the "product" is a success. The music industry has billions spent on publicity and marketing; you can’t get into the game and play with the big boys without ante-ing up. And am I to understand that you’re also handling her publicity for non-web purposes as well? Do you have any skills or experience in that area, and if so, what kinds of plans are in place for her? > We have no web page on line yet as there has been a media black out for the > last two years as Warner music has been going through a lot of changes and > wanted to lose a few acts that were under performing and didnt want to > launch our singer in amongst all that sort of uncertainty and press > speculation… > She is set for a single release early 2001 and will be a chart style R&B act > with a killer diva voice , I cant really liken it to any other star around > as no one is close but the company call her little Whitney !!!
Careful with the hyperbole, Danny! There’s a point beyond which you can lose a little credibility. Perhaps using terms like "following in the tradition of…" or "combining the styles of…" would be more believable than "there is no one close". > if you wanted to help i am looking for companies to join us with the web > straterjies as We have worked hard at keeping control over the last few > years and were never going to give away her web rights for nothing …… we > would like to see if we could sign them a bit like her publishing and her > recording , she will be around for a long time we are confident of that and > the web will be instimental in keeping her at the top I am sure of that. > Danny T > …. >"
So what is it that you’re looking for, exactly? Someone to do the work for free? Are you offering a share of her royalties? And really, Danny, the web presence has to be part and parcel of the overall marketing campaign. You can’t do these things in isolation from each other. You really can’t compare the web/publicity aspect with the publishing and recording side. Those are established scenarios with revenue models, distribution channels, and infrastructure already in place. That really isn’t the case with the publicity and web presence side, which also drives revenues to those other areas. So I’m not sure I see any kind of safe return on the time investment for someone handling that part… I’ve got to tell you, Danny, this is a situation where you’re likely to get what you pay for. The hundreds of hours that would be required to get things set up and running and the ongoing regular PR, upkeep, and maintenance (hundreds of hours again) are not likely to be provided on "spec" by anyone truly professional at their craft that I’ve ever encountered. The farthest I ever consider going in this direction is a reduced fee plus royalty setup. And to even consider that, the client has to sell me completely on the viability of their venture or I just can’t justify getting involved. Anyway, if you are interested in pursuing this in any way, you’re going to have to be a lot more forthcoming in the details of your business, your plans, your artist, your budget, and so on. If you feel embarrassed by giving out the details, perhaps it’s a sign that you need to change the situation and handle things in a way you can be proud of. — George Demmer – President Reality Marketing Associates Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada Phone: (604)944-8603 Fax: (604)944-4708 "Everything your business does is marketing. We help you do it better."
Response:
Hello I am the owner of a music Production company in England . We represent a young singer who is signed to a major Record Label Warner music uk . We are releasing her debut single and album early 2001 and were hoping someone could give us any ideas or straterjies for her on the Internet. Th e record label wanted complet ownership of her web space but we refused and control it all on her behalf . We are hoping someone could help us if so please email me Thanks for listening Danny T
Response:
Tony: What is it you want to accomplish for her on the internet? Do you want to sell albums? Do you want to have a fan site? What’s the goal? I’m also wondering…you were wise enough to retain ownership of her Internet rights…yet you don’t seem to know what to do with them. Are you now going to be wise enough to hire someone professional who can really do something with them? George Demmer – President Reality Marketing Associates Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada Phone: (604)944-8603 Fax: (604)944-4708 "Everything your business does is marketing. We help you do it better."
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello I am the owner of a music Production company in England . We represent > a young singer who is signed to a major Record Label Warner music uk . We > are releasing her debut single and album early 2001 and were hoping someone > could give us any ideas or straterjies for her on the Internet. Th e record > label wanted complet ownership of her web space but we refused and control > it all on her behalf . We are hoping someone could help us if so please > email me > Thanks for listening > Danny T
Response:
> Hello I am the owner of a music Production company in England . We represent > a young singer who is signed to a major Record Label Warner music uk . We > are releasing her debut single and album early 2001 and were hoping someone > could give us any ideas or straterjies for her on the Internet.
*sigh* Why don’t you just tell us who she is? If we know, we’ll be able to better help you. I could ask you just what type of music she sings, but that will only help so far. Providing us her name and her current website will be much better. > Th e record > label wanted complet ownership of her web space but we refused and control > it all on her behalf .
Why did you refuse? What makes you think you can do a better job than them? What are they doing wrong on the net for their current artists that would hurt yours? Or are you just trying to hold onto her for as long as you can? Scott T. Jensen
Response:
Thanks for getting back Scott and George telling you who she is wouldn’t give you any more info than you already have and would also undermine my company a little by making us look ignorant to running her business properly so there is no point sighing!.We have a fairley good idea what we want to acheive on the internet , raising her profile and atracting new fans , media attention and collecting a good list of interested email adresses to target future straterjies , like tours and singles and feedback from all ove rthe world . And also being able to get close to the fans with web cams and web chats and other stuff exclusive to her fans that obtain membership to her fan club And regarding the Record label being able to do the job better , Warner uk have an awful stratejy on the web , they are actually non existent . We retained the rights because When we asked for the money to build a site thinking it would be like any other form of publicity like magazine and such they said they would only give us help if the owned it !! We were looking for any ideas of raising revenue and her profile , a bit like EMI are doing with their acts and working with msn. We have no web page on line yet as there has been a media black out for the last two years as Warner music has been going through a lot of changes and wanted to lose a few acts that were under performing and didnt want to launch our singer in amongst all that sort of uncertainty and press speculation… She is set for a single release early 2001 and will be a chart style R&B act with a killer diva voice , I cant really liken it to any other star around as no one is close but the company call her little Whitney !!! if you wanted to help i am looking for companies to join us with the web straterjies as We have worked hard at keeping control over the last few years and were never going to give away her web rights for nothing …… we would like to see if we could sign them a bit like her publishing and her recording , she will be around for a long time we are confident of that and the web will be instimental in keeping her at the top I am sure of that. Danny T …. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"