Business History Books » Business Consultant » Is all unsolicited e-mail objectionable?
Is all unsolicited e-mail objectionable?
Question:
writes:
:>What I don’t understand is why everyone is making such a fuss over this :>situation. Here’s what is going to happen… :— :What I don’t understand is how someone can have the gall to spam :members of *this* newsgroup and then just "show up" and post your :inane drivel here. :So, Mr. "Info. you requested" O’Leary, please do us all a big favor :and just disappear. Mr. O’Leary , the purported master of web marketing and newsgroup advertising, publisher of a book of same substance and spam emailer, seems to have pissed off one of his bread and butter newsgroups for marketing his book! Somehow if he were to employ the tactics that I imagine were in his book, he would have not have spammed this newsgroups readers with his email advertisements, instead he would have presented himself as an expert on web marketing, answered relevant questions and as a sideline ( in a moderated group) would have invited people to his web page for the purpose of selling his "web marketing" book. Some authors just don’t follow their own words. As for the demise of email spamming advertisements, thats all I need is an email spam directing me to a web page telling me of the eventual demise of email spam. Thankyou Mr. Oleary. P.s. as the goal of any internet/webpage/usenet advertising is to avoid flames, one could guess that your particular strategy is a bust.
Response:
:>…I feel that all of us, specifically in Canada and the US are :>inundated with "buy" messages and we are getting really good at :>filtering them out :For sure. This is just one of the reasons that some traditional :promotional methods and campaigns that once worked well, are now :becoming marginal. :Increased cynicism and improved B.S. detectors are one result of the :recent massive increase in "marketing noise." :>The Internet has presented us all a fabulous :>opportunity to give the consumer something other than "Buy Now" :>messages, used properly, it is a medium to position the company :>offering the product/service as one that is giving something back, :>not just asking that we spend our hard earned dollars with them… :>…how do we differentiate ourselves from the smuck in :>his basement who is doing the same thing yet doesn’t have to answer :>for credibility or service to his customer or consumer. As part of a group in the ISBC (Internation Small Business Consortium) working on a WWW Code of Ethics, we also worry about that. You can see our working draft at <http://www.isbc.com/business/coe_det.html>. You can also seee how it actually affects someone, look at <http://www.digiserve.com/fbngraphics/coe1.htm>. This shows the old Coe I have and how it would be changed, since I already do most of what is required. Please send me your comments, but try not to overload my ISP. We want to make sure what we propose is fair to all parties. :For all of you who don’t know what the term means, a "smuck" is :someone who sits in their basement eating jam, jelly, or preserves out 
f the jar with a spoon. :On the other hand "Shmuck" is a Yiddish term that refers to a portion f the anatomy that, if your name is Donna, you probably don’t have <g>. >vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO >Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO
Walter Daniels FBN Graphics – The place where your mug says what YOU want! Custom orders cheerfully done on quality coffee mugs, with no minimum order. You can order quantites of 1 to 100 for use by individuals, club, etc.
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: People don’t want information. They want *advice*. They want someone : they can trust to filter information for them, and present it in a : concise and actionable format. : If you can do this, if you can provide this service for your customers : or prospects, you’ll pull very far ahead of the pack. Just don’t : forget to ask for the order at some point <g>. Yes! Yes! YES! hear, hear! — Author of "The Kitchen Table Millionaire" Dynamic Turn-Key Home Business Ideas, Leading-Edge Strategies and Unbeatable Resources for the Home and Small Business Entrepreneur. ===== > http://www.windansea.com _/_/
Response:
Victor: Your response was well put, and well taken…. > lots of snips<<<
: People are being overwhelmed by information. They’re trying to make : sense of it, and extract what’s important to them (the old "trying to : drink from a fire hose" metaphor). Fabulous metaphor actually, wish I’d thought of it :-) : People don’t want information. They want *advice*. They want someone : they can trust to filter information for them, and present it in a : concise and actionable format. Again, well put! :> …how do we differentiate ourselves from the smuck in :> his basement who is doing the same thing yet doesn’t have to answer :> for credibility or service to his customer or consumer. : For all of you who don’t know what the term means, a "smuck" is : someone who sits in their basement eating jam, jelly, or preserves out : of the jar with a spoon. Sorry, I should not have used that term (it’s a slang term for someone with no credibility, no standards and no class) and I probably did not spell it correctly, because I have no idea how to spell it. Your original version of the definition actually kind of fits the image. I was accused in another post that I was being elitist by saying that, but the point of what I am saying is not that someone sitting in their basement can not do a good job, but rather they do not have to answer to their consumers, effectively, they can take the money and run, and who does the consumer complain too. Also, if they were dealing with a real direct mail issue, you’d have to worry that they would get jam all over the pieces. (ggle) : On the other hand "Shmuck" is a Yiddish term that refers to a portion : of the anatomy that, if your name is Donna, you probably don’t have : <g>. I will remember that when I am tempted, in the future, to use that term. 
— Wishing you the best of success Donna Henuset Independant Business Consultant Calgary AB Canada
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>If you can do this, if you can provide this service for your customers >or prospects, you’ll pull very far ahead of the pack. Just don’t >:forget to ask for the order at some point <g>.
Cardinal rule but practiced by few. Folks, ask yourselves, if you *ask for the order*. If you do, is it too soon? Too late? If you don’t, are you afraid? Don’t know how? The more you hear *NO* , the closer you get to *YES* >For all of you who don’t know what the term means, a "smuck" is >someone who sits in their basement eating jam, jelly, or preserves out >of the jar with a spoon.
Did you get jelly on the *O* key when creating your signature <ROTFLMAO> (I just couldn’t pass this up Victor <g>) :vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO :Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO :Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO 
irect Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO :http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO John Present: Knott Former: Smuck Have a: S h m u c k
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: For me the biggest annoyance with junk email is the get rich quick schemes. : It wastes my time and insults my intelligence. I feel the same way. They fill the usegroups, turning them into garbage dumps. One group I used to follow regularly is showing 9 junk mailings to 1 on topic message. I thinked moderated newsgroups will become more popular as time goes on. My computer is fairly slow (486 sx33) and my Internet connection is only 14.4. I find the messages in my mailbox load very slowly and take time to delete. I don’t particularly like flyers in my snailmailbox either. Garland Coulson Topkids Online – Internet for kids! http://www.topkids.com
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writes: >I believe that Jeff is correct is presuming that the web will be highly >commercialized. That it is somewhat inevitable that email, whether you call >it junk, unsolicited or advertising mostly is here to stay.
I’m not against sending email to someone. When I find a person that says something interesting on a news group or mailing list, I write to him or her. This is communication and it is good. But when someone gets a list – I don’t care how he gets it – and sends an advertisement to everyone on the list, this is bad. This is spamming. If we allow spamming, after awhile, there will be nothing else on the Net except spam. A good example is news groups. Most news groups started out performing useful communications among people. But today they are loaded with spam. I avoid them like the plague. Except for moderated groups, like this one. The Internet is a network of learning fountains, each there to help different types of people learn. If we allow the Net to be inundated by spam, none of us will be able to learn anything. The Net will be dead!
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:A question for discussion: : Unsolicited e-mail is widely resented, particularly for messages of a :commercial nature. While the prejudice against crass, blatantly commercial ffers is understandable, e-mail solicitation has some significant :attributes: (snip) :that e-mail solicitations be brief and informational in nature. : I’m just wondering if, given the sanctioned commercialization of the :Internet, it’s time to relax the passionate prejudice against all :unsolicited e-mail. : I’m interested in learning what others think. I don’t think the backlash that’s out there is directed at unsolicited e-mail per se, Jeff … only the unsolicited stuff that comes from those who apparently have never heard of the term "target market." I welcome receiving mail that pertains to my hobbies and buying interests, but most of the unsolicited stuff I receive is just junk. I got to the point long ago of just deleting it without reading any of it. A smart e-mail marketer who targets mail to those with a likely interest in his/her product or service will know how to write a subject line that will prevent an unread deletion, but most aren’t that smart. Just my two cents worth.
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Paul expressed how most of us feel about this, I personally received 10 junk e-mails this weekend and none of them were at all relevant to me. If you didn’t read this post before, you should read it now as Paul makes his point well… Chris, are you reading? — Wishing you the best of success Donna Henuset Independent Business Consultant Calgary AB Canada ..
:>I believe that Jeff is correct is presuming that the web will be highly :>commercialized. That it is somewhat inevitable that email, whether you call :>it junk, unsolicited or advertising mostly is here to stay. : I’m not against sending email to someone. When I find a person that : says something interesting on a news group or mailing list, I write to : him or her. This is communication and it is good. : But when someone gets a list – I don’t care how he gets it – and sends : an advertisement to everyone on the list, this is bad. This is : spamming. If we allow spamming, after awhile, there will be nothing : else on the Net except spam. : A good example is news groups. Most news groups started out performing : useful communications among people. But today they are loaded with : spam. I avoid them like the plague. Except for moderated groups, like : this one. : The Internet is a network of learning fountains, each there to help : different types of people learn. If we allow the Net to be inundated by : spam, none of us will be able to learn anything. The Net will be dead!
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What I don’t understand is why everyone is making such a fuss over this situation. Here’s what is going to happen… The America Online versus CyberPromo lawsuit has paved the way and soon ISPs and individuals will be able to file civil lawsuits against spammers. Forget free speech, this is very close to happening. Many important battles have already been won in court. Mark my word. In another few months when this starts happening, bulk E-Mailers will be out of business. Plain and simple. Now does that mean bulk E-Mailing will cease to exist? Not exactly from what I hear. This isn’t a fact but supposedly Microsoft and a bunch of other companies are in the middle of setting up a system where people can choose to receive unsolicited advertisements on a controlled basis and get paid a few cents for each advertisement they receive. Obviously this is a MAJOR undertaking and is not going to happen anytime soon or who knows they may scrap the whole project…just what I’ve heard! Jess
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>What I don’t understand is why everyone is making such a fuss over this >situation. Here’s what is going to happen…
— What I don’t understand is how someone can have the gall to spam members of *this* newsgroup and then just "show up" and post your inane drivel here. So, Mr. "Info. you requested" O’Leary, please do us all a big favor and just disappear. vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO Direct Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO
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: Want to learn interesting things about people who post in newsgroups? under ‘features’ or go directly to http://search.dejanews.com/profile.xp : Anybody can do this. Try it on yourself. You’ll probably be : surprised, and maybe disturbed, by what it reveals about you. I was certainly suprised — Nick Advice & Help with Computers. Housekeeping, Consultancy & Development Your pet can’t clean his ears! http://worldemail.com/wetc/brushtec "VET it first" Vet Virus Protection Software Dealer
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>- it potentially saves paper tha might have been used for "junk mail"; >- it potentially reduces volume handled by the Postal Service >- it reduces handling by company mailrooms, clerical assistance and others >involved in the traditional "paper chain."
I think the real point is people pay for the privilege of internet access and really do not want to waste their time downloading and reading junk-email. The world wide web and newsgroups (single postings to newsgroups that is) is a more appropriate means of marketing on the internet. TJ Eagle Software Group, Inc. TJ Green 8315 Lee Highway, Suite 404 Fairfax, Virginia 22031
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>Certainly with the increase of these countries coming online, especially from >the Pac-rim, we’ll see increasing unsolicited e-mail, but IMO, will not compare >to the ever increase originating from the USA.
No question about it . . . for the moment. But if you go to some of the Australian or Hong Kong or Singapore business newsgroups you’ll find all the same stuff . . . only local to those countries. Also, I wasn’t necessarily just talking about this true junk but legitimate ads for possibly find products and services around the world. If one can advertise her/his business virtually for free, and without potential punishment, why not? Worth a shot. But I agree . . . at present . . . it’s the MLM and get-rich-quick folks in the US that are being the most annoying. >What’s the reason for this? Maybe because the roots of the entrepreneur’s spirit >is in the US. Maybe because those *businesses* that do unsolicited e-mail are >all looking to make a *quick buck*, a phenomena that is very more active in the >US than elsewhere. Maybe it is because *most* if not *all* the *Make Money >Fast*, *Get Rich Quick*, MLM, and such originate from the US.
True . . . and also because we largely got on the Net the fastest. Whatever the content of the unsolicited mail good or rip-off, it still has the potential, if unchecked, to make the Internet (at least as it stands today) useless. Take care! Ray
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>…I feel that all of us, specifically in Canada and the US are >inundated with "buy" messages and we are getting really good at >filtering them out. We are also starting to resent the intrusion on our >personal lives through telemarketing, direct mail and now unsolicited >E-mail. As a marketing consultant, I believe the role of the marketing >expert is to present a concept that is innovative and non intrusive for >the product or service. This is the nineties and everyone is tired >of the hard sell message.
For sure. This is just one of the reasons that some traditional promotional methods and campaigns that once worked well, are now becoming marginal. Increased cynicism and improved B.S. detectors are one result of the recent massive increase in "marketing noise." Another pervasive trend is due to the substantial increase in information flow in general. People are being overwhelmed by information. They’re trying to make sense of it, and extract what’s important to them (the old "trying to drink from a fire hose" metaphor). >The Internet has presented us all a fabulous >opportunity to give the consumer something other than "Buy Now" >messages, used properly, it is a medium to position the company >offering the product/service as one that is giving something back, >not just asking that we spend our hard earned dollars with them…
People don’t want information. They want *advice*. They want someone they can trust to filter information for them, and present it in a concise and actionable format. If you can do this, if you can provide this service for your customers or prospects, you’ll pull very far ahead of the pack. Just don’t forget to ask for the order at some point <g>. >…how do we differentiate ourselves from the smuck in >his basement who is doing the same thing yet doesn’t have to answer >for credibility or service to his customer or consumer.
For all of you who don’t know what the term means, a "smuck" is someone who sits in their basement eating jam, jelly, or preserves out of the jar with a spoon. On the other hand "Shmuck" is a Yiddish term that refers to a portion of the anatomy that, if your name is Donna, you probably don’t have <g>. vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO Direct Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO
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>> I’m just wondering if, given the sanctioned commercialization of the > Internet, it’s time to relax the passionate prejudice against all > unsolicited e-mail. > I’m interested in learning what others think.
I believe that Jeff is correct is presuming that the web will be highly commercialized. That it is somewhat inevitable that email, whether you call it junk, unsolicited or advertising mostly is here to stay. I also believe that the "passionate prejudice" that Jeff refers too will need to be mellowed. There must be some sort of existing netiquette, though less strict than at present, to self control the use of email advertising. When you come to think about it, we are bombarded with unsolicited advertising from every aspect of our lives with every means possible and the only thing we can do is turn it off or file it. The same will be true of the internet. We already can block out with "key words" addresses, and or accept from a limited number. Most people don’t mind, its the few who strongly object that makes it seem like they are of the majority. Some controls: more website where people/businesses can sign up for lists of certain types – categories of interest or use. If not this, then any unsolicited effort must use a key word which then can be turned off. I for one, do not object to most of it. Though I don’t get a lot – Don’t abuse this now! I have benefited from several messages or have gone on follow-up and benefited. I would not otherwise have learned or known, at least at that point. Another ediquette rule, Only a subject header with a one line ad and site address. After all, isn’t that what sites are for. To lay it out in full. My exclusion would be totally random sending, with very long messages. — Financial Savings, Inc http://finsave.com Cyber Designs Internet Business Provider
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:2. we are just beginning to see really big countries come o line. Can you :imagine the quantity of junk mail we’ll all be receiving when merchants in :China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, etc. want to also take advantage of no cost :marketing. The internet could very quickly become the CB radio of the ’90s and :turn into The Tower of Babel. Breaker breaker Ray! Certainly with the increase of these countries coming online, especially from the Pac-rim, we’ll see increasing unsolicited e-mail, but IMO, will not compare to the ever increase originating from the USA. To use my own situation, I live in Europe and have the "nl" as part of my e-mail address (4 accounts). I probably receive more unsolicited e-mail than anyone else within this group. To my social, business and moderating e-mail addresses, I have never received unsolicited e-mail from within the Netherlands or anywhere in Europe. ALL originate in the US. Europe is second to the US in terms of number of hosts and users and one would maybe expect to see the proportion of hosts, and users between the US and Europe to come back in unsolicited e-mail, but it just isn’t there. What’s the reason for this? Maybe because the roots of the entrepreneur’s spirit is in the US. Maybe because those *businesses* that do unsolicited e-mail are all looking to make a *quick buck*, a phenomena that is very more active in the US than elsewhere. Maybe it is because *most* if not *all* the *Make Money Fast*, *Get Rich Quick*, MLM, and such originate from the US. Many promotional concepts are more avant garde here in Europe than in the US, but certainly the promotional tools are more conservative, or rather not as accepted as in the US. These are not the observations of a European but of an American in Europe. I would be interested if Europeans have/are experiencing the same thing, or other Americans in Europe and elsewhere. >Over and over people forget the Internet is global
No question, we see that in this newsgroup from time to time. Could one of the reasons for this be because the new gendre of net users for the *most* part began their online experience with the likes of AOL, Prodigy, Compuserve, et.al., when these services where strictly *domestic* Here again I’m talking about US net users <g> — Marketpreneurs (webwork in progress) An association for marketing consultants, a service and directory for business
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> A question for discussion: :> I’m just wondering if, given the sanctioned commercialization of the Internet, it’s :> time to relax the passionate prejudice against all unsolicited e-mail. First of all, I personally have to disagree with the statement "sanctioned commercialization of the Internet." As I pointed out in an article I posted last week from a Coopers and Lybrand study, it seems that the Internet is now being primarily viewed as an information source, not a source of commercialism, and those companies that are using it for such are not achieving the results they were hoping for. > Unsolicited e-mail is widely resented, particularly for messages of a > commercial nature. While the prejudice against crass, blatantly commercial > offers is understandable, e-mail solicitation has some significant > attributes: Secondly, I feel that all of us, specifically in Canada and the US are inundated with "buy" messages and we are getting really good at filtering them out. We are also starting to resent the intrusion on our personal lives through telemarketing, direct mail and now unsolicited E-mail. As a marketing consultant, I believe the role of the marketing expert is to present a concept that is innovative and non intrusive for the product or service. This is the nineties and everyone is tired of the hard sell message. The Internet has presented us all a fabulous opportunity to give the consumer something other than "Buy Now" messages, used properly, it is a medium to position the company offering the product/service as one that is giving something back, not just asking that we spend our hard earned dollars with them. By using un-solicited E-mail, we are using traditional approaches with a non-traditional medium, and I do not believe the same rules apply. Thirdly, I unquestionably agree with what Akakan wrote regarding > 1) On receiving bulk e-mail, my first thought is, "How did you get my : address? And what else do you know?" This I believe is almost everyone’s reaction, and there is this real feeling that Big Brother is watching and it is not comfortable for anyone. When I first started getting unsolicited E-Mail I used to send back a note saying " Where did you get my address, and please don’t send me this shit again", however, now it doesn’t even warrant my reply, it just bugs me. : 2) Bulk e-mail is ugly. An unsolicited message is a piece of text. big snip :There are no splashy graphics to distinguish companies with money :from frauds in the basement. Again, the problem with using un-solicited E-Mail as a marketing tool, there is no way to focus the market, or determine if the people you are sending to are any where near the target group. Someone, somewhere is paying a person to sit and read newsgroups all day and copy the peoples E-mail address for a mailing list. When people address it as a free form of direct mail, they are wrong, it is costing someone dollars to obtain these lists and I think it is a waste of time. I know I have been pretty long winded about this but it has become a huge bone of contention for me. Those of us who spent endless years in university and endless years researching new marketing techniques and studying trends resent this blatant waste of our time in what is called a marketing tool. If any of us condone the use of this medium for marketing we are opening up a can of worms that we will not be able to stop, and as Akakan pointed out, if we use this tool as part of a professional marketing plan, how do we differentiate ourselves from the smuck in his basement who is doing the same thing yet doesn’t have to answer for credibility or service to his customer or consumer. Thats all folks, just had to put in my five dollars worth, because I live in Canada, and with the exchange to the US Dollars, it works out to about two cents…. Wishing you all the best of success, Donna Henuset Independent Business Consultant Calgary, AB Canada : A useful question might be: WHY is unsolicited e-mail objectionable? : But, when I began receiving junk e-mail recently, I too became upset. : Here’s why, and I present this not because I think my own pet peeves are so : fascinating, but because I’d like to know if these are common reactions.
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>1) On receiving bulk e-mail, my first thought is, "How did you get my >address? And what else do you know?" Face it, few of us with home computers >really know what information others are gleaning from our PCs whenever we >surf the Internet or post a message.
— Want to learn interesting things about people who post in newsgroups? Profile." Anybody can do this. Try it on yourself. You’ll probably be surprised, and maybe disturbed, by what it reveals about you. vrurbach (at) optran.com OOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOO OOO OO OO Victor R. Urbach OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO OO Optran Corporation OO OO OOOOO OO OOOO OOOOOOO OO OO OO Direct Response Marketing OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OOO http://www.optran.com OOOOO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO OO
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A useful question might be: WHY is unsolicited e-mail objectionable? As a direct marketer, I have always taken a dim view of people who object to receiving "junk mail." Throw it out, I say. Better yet, alert the mailer: he or she is no happier to be wasting paper on you than you are to receive it. But, when I began receiving junk e-mail recently, I too became upset. Here’s why, and I present this not because I think my own pet peeves are so fascinating, but because I’d like to know if these are common reactions. 1) On receiving bulk e-mail, my first thought is, "How did you get my address? And what else do you know?" Face it, few of us with home computers really know what information others are gleaning from our PCs whenever we surf the Internet or post a message. At least with a traditional rental list, you can assume (comfortingly, if perhaps wrongly) that all the renter knows about you is your name, address, and your interest in Sports Illustrated. But when a message appears on your PC, you have no idea what mysterious cookie technology is in the works, what headers have been picked up, etc. This is frankly frightening to most people, including me. 2) Bulk e-mail is ugly. An unsolicited message is a piece of text. Face it, one of the reasons why companies use expensive graphics in ads and direct mail is because it looks, well, expensive. Meaning, only legitimate companies can afford it. But with e-mail, every incarcerated creep who just finished posting in alt.binaries.sex.sheep can afford to now turn his attention to bombarding your address. There are no splashy graphics to distinguish companies with money from frauds in the basement. Somewhere in this rambling, I believe, lurk some of the reasons why unsolicited e-mail can be objectionable. Jeff March wrote in article: > A question for discussion: > Unsolicited e-mail is widely resented, particularly for messages of a > commercial nature. While the prejudice against crass, blatantly commercial > offers is understandable, e-mail solicitation has some significant > attributes:
SNIP I’m just wondering if, given the sanctioned commercialization of the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Internet, it’s time to relax the passionate prejudice against all > unsolicited e-mail. > I’m interested in learning what others think.
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>- it potentially saves paper tha might have been used for "junk mail"; >- it potentially reduces volume handled by the Postal Service >- it reduces handling by company mailrooms, clerical assistance and others >involved in the traditional "paper chain."
1. it costs the RECEIVER money in many cases including telephone and per byte charges rather than the sender. It is "postage due marketing". 2. we are just beginning to see really big countries come o line. Can you imagine the quantity of junk mail we’ll all be receiving when merchants in China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, etc. want to also take advantage of no cost marketing. The internet could very quickly become the CB radio of the ’90s and turn into The Tower of Babel. Over and over people forget the Internet is global . . . that means potentially, eventually EVER business ANYWHERE will have access. 3. it sends a very bad signal about your company when you go against generally established business practices. While not all of these potential customers may tell you about it, do you really want to have hundreds/thousands of people out there who have a very negative image of your company? 4. As it stands now, most ISPs will terminate your access to the Internet. Do you want to find all your order/inquiries from your customers no longer have a home. Nope, it just won’t work. I’ve been a direct marketer for over 20 years and I’d love to use send my message to millions of people without a stamp. But it’s just not viable. IMHO anyhow. Ray Gabriel "A Serious Business" – the international idealetter for small business by and for small-businesses people in 60 countries around the world.
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The only unsolicited e-mail that I ever got that I liked was a good dirty joke. Jon.
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For me the biggest annoyance with junk email is the get rich quick schemes. It wastes my time and insults my intelligence. As for marketing this way, I wouldn’t. It simply shows you don’t understand the unique culture of the net or the principles of target marketing. Moreover, it totally ruins your credibility. This is not about saving trees. It’s about communicating with your target public. I doubt anyone is going to sit back and read some of this mindless dribble thinking "this is saving paper." The only way I condone it is when people use a free email service in exchange for receiving junk advertising email. (or is that email advertising junk?) Under those conditions, recipients are fully expecting to receive it. As for junk email going only to corporations. . .My clients (I’m in web site management) tell me that they waste too much time filtering out unwanted mail. — Dave Leach President Micris Business Communications PO Box 142 Welland, Ontario Canada L3B 5P2 [Moderator's Note: I've asked you once before to contain your signature to 6 lines from 13. This time, I'm not going to make all the information fit into a 6 line signature and instead just delete everything after 6 lines. JG]
Response:
Bob Dole would say; "Just don’t do it" >A question for discussion: > Unsolicited e-mail is widely resented, particularly for messages of a >commercial nature. While the prejudice against crass, blatantly commercial >offers is understandable,
Because there is no cost such as with direct mail, those sending unsolicited e-mail don’t brother to target, rather don’t understand targeting. Just plain irresponsible. When you live in a foreign country and receive a sh_t load of unsolicited e-mail for products and services which can *only* be used in the US, from companies that include *marketing* in their name, I just have to wonder why were these bozos born. Or the ones that start out "Research shows that you…" What research! Another gripe; the ones with *Send back with Remove* , which subscribes rather than actually removing you from their list. And most are *Send $5* MMF, MLM, ALL clueless idiots that think they’re businessmen but nothing more than cretins wanting to make a fast buck. It is because of these bozos that everyone hates unsolicited e-mail, even marketers. An otherwise great promotional tool that will have no life unless there is regulation….but that’s very unlikely as the Internet is not own by anyone as because of it’s global access. >e-mail solicitation has some significant attributes: >- it potentially saves paper tha might have been used for "junk mail";
It costs the receiver money (online charges and metered phone rates) although not significant but multiply times 100’s per day, those costs add up. >- it potentially reduces volume handled by the Postal Service
Increases volume handled by ISPs and BANDWIDTH. >- it reduces handling by company mailrooms, clerical assistance and others >involved in the traditional "paper chain."
Increases handling by receiver (sore finger from delete key) > Of course, it’s arguable that e-mail solicitations don’t necessarily >replace paper mailings, but might simply augment print. > With consideration to the somewhat intrusive nature of unsolicited >e-mail, I wonder if the participants in this discussion group believe that >marketing via e-mail might be acceptable under controlled >conditions–e.g., >- that "targets" be limited to companies with commercial websites (on the >notion that such companies are already participants in the commercial use >of the Internet and, as such, invite contact);
If a commercial website uses unsolicited e-mail why not, but if a commercial website doesn’t practice unsolicited e-mail and you do, I doubt they think to call you. >- that messages comply with ethical standards of restraint (somewhat like >the quasi-advertisements of sponsors of PBS television programs)–that is, >that e-mail solicitations be brief and informational in nature.
And how would you get this into practice? Sure some standards can be set and many would oblige, but that won’t stop the ones that do not bother or respect the set standards. How would you enforce? More and more sites (ISPs) where unsolicited e-mail originates from are being cut of by others, which means non-spam from one of those sites is returned. This again is not a solution but maybe it will wake up ISPs that it is in their best interest to have a policy of not allowing the sending of spam, or restricting the sending of commercial e-mail to legit businesses only , thus banning the MMF and all the other quasi-businesses. > I’m just wondering if, given the sanctioned commercialization of the >Internet, it’s time to relax the passionate prejudice against all >unsolicited e-mail. > I’m interested in learning what others think.
If there was some way, worldwide ISP agreement, that *make money fast*, Get rich quick* and the likes be illegal, this would be a start and cut down tremendously, allowing for slow acceptance and toleration coupled with ethical e-mail practices of business. Perhaps various clearinghouses could be setup around the globe with the use of a filtering system. Until that time, I just hit the delete key a great deal and repetitive spam is sent to the originating ISP’s postmaster, abuse, etc. It’s a two way street here but not being met. , AOL for example cut of a site’s incoming e-mail and is developing software that will allow AOLers to to filter and also config for no spam, yet most of the spam I receive are from AOLers. — ROI Marketing www.nijenrode.nl/mbmm/roimarketing An association for marketing consultants, a service and directory for business
Response:
A question for discussion: Unsolicited e-mail is widely resented, particularly for messages of a commercial nature. While the prejudice against crass, blatantly commercial offers is understandable, e-mail solicitation has some significant attributes: – it potentially saves paper tha might have been used for "junk mail"; – it potentially reduces volume handled by the Postal Service – it reduces handling by company mailrooms, clerical assistance and others involved in the traditional "paper chain." Of course, it’s arguable that e-mail solicitations don’t necessarily replace paper mailings, but might simply augment print. With consideration to the somewhat intrusive nature of unsolicited e-mail, I wonder if the participants in this discussion group believe that marketing via e-mail might be acceptable under controlled conditions–e.g., – that "targets" be limited to companies with commercial websites (on the notion that such companies are already participants in the commercial use of the Internet and, as such, invite contact); – that messages comply with ethical standards of restraint (somewhat like the quasi-advertisements of sponsors of PBS television programs)–that is, that e-mail solicitations be brief and informational in nature. I’m just wondering if, given the sanctioned commercialization of the Internet, it’s time to relax the passionate prejudice against all unsolicited e-mail. I’m interested in learning what others think. — EditPros marketing communications P.O. Box 1981 // Davis, CA, U.S.A. 95617-1981 (916) 759-0168 voice/fax Worldwide Web http://www.editpros.com Great Grammar http://www.editpros.com/grammar.html