- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Red China Attains Global Control of Ports > Charles R. Smith > Monday, March 27, 2006 > Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports deal is a > much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain control of > global ports that are strategically positioned to support military or > economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone > virtually unnoticed. > The powerful Chinese-owned Hutchison Whampoa Ltd. is now the world’s > biggest cargo terminal operator, according to London-based Drewry Shipping > Consultants. It also is the world’s largest port owner. > Hutchison Port Holdings has assumed control of scores of potential > economic choke points, including 169 berths at 41 ports worldwide. These > facilities control about 15 percent of global maritime container traffic. > Some of Hutchison’s ports lie near key sea lines of communication, such as > the Panama Canal, the Suez Canal and the eastern coast of the United > States. Of the eight international regions with choke points labeled by > the Department of Defense as "U.S. lifelines and transit regions," > Hutchison has ports in six. > "Amidst the furor over a U.A.E. corporate takeover of major U.S. and > Canadian seaports, scant notice has been given to the longstanding and > continuing threat from the PRC/Triad [People's Republic of China and > Chinese mobsters] ‘business’ presence at seaports around the world, > including the U.S. and Canada," stated a top-level Canadian port security > analyst. > "COSCO [China Ocean Shipping Co.] moved into Vancouver weeks after the > liberal, Sino suck-up government of Canada inexplicably got rid of the > ports police, which of course had nothing to do with the extensive > personal business interests held by the then and future prime ministers. > Now they’re in Halifax and the pattern is identical; they exclude everyone > from their operation, and commercial port operators with dollar signs in > their eyes and God knows what in their pockets blithely proclaim, ‘It’s > good for business.’ No doubt, but whose business — and what is the > business?" stated the analyst. > "Even Hillary Clinton is now decrying the installation of (billionaire) Li > Ka-Shing and his Hutchison Whampoa at both ends of the Panama Canal. Too > bad ethics didn’t trump self-interest when the Clintons approved the deal. > Maybe Hillary is just trolling for a renewal fee from her PRC benefactors. > After all, there’s another campaign on the horizon," noted the analyst. > Asia’s richest man, Li owns Hutchison Whampoa. He is well known outside of > financial circles, having attracted the attention of the U.S. military in > a top-secret document drawn up in 1999 during his successful bid to buy > the Panama Canal ports. > According to the October 1999 "intelligence assessment" prepared by the > U.S. military’s Southern Command, the Hong Kong billionaire is a "threat" > to U.S. national security. > "Hutchison Whampoa’s owner, Hong Kong tycoon Li Ka-Shing, has extensive > business ties in Beijing and has compelling financial reasons to maintain > a good relationship with China’s leadership," states the assessment. > "Hutchison’s containerized shipping facilities in the Panama Canal, as > well as the Bahamas, could provide a conduit for illegal shipments of > technology or prohibited items from the West to the PRC, or facilitate the > movement of arms and other prohibited items into the Americas," states the > 1999 report. > According to a 1999 investigative report by the American Foreign Policy > Council, "Hutchison Whampoa, through its Hutchison International Terminals > subsidiary or Panama Ports Co., has substantial links to the Chinese > communist government and the People’s Liberation Army." > The Hutchison Panama Ports Co. is 10 percent owned by China Resources > Enterprise (CRE), which is the commercial arm of China’s Ministry of Trade > and Economic Cooperation. > In its investigation into China’s attempts to influence the 1996 U.S. > presidential campaign, the U.S. Senate Government Affairs Committee > identified CRE as a conduit for "espionage – economic, political and > military – for China." > The committee’s then-chairman, Sen. Fred Thompson, said that CRE has > "geopolitical purposes. Kind of like a smiling tiger; it might look > friendly, but it’s very dangerous." > Republican Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi has described the Hong Kong firm > as "an arm of the People’s Liberation Army." > Li was a member of the board of the China International Trust and > Investment Corp. (CITIC), a business partner of COSCO. CITIC is the bank > of the Chinese army (People’s Liberation Army, or PLA), providing > financing for Chinese army weapons sales and Western technology purchases. > COSCO is known for its global commercial transport. COSCO also acts as the > merchant marine for the Chinese military. COSCO ships frequently > participate in Chinese naval exercises and are armed with missile > launchers. > COSCO ships have carried weapons to Iran, Pakistan, North Korea and Iraq. > COSCO ships also have carried nuclear weapon components to Pakistan. COSCO > ships have been used to ferry tanks to the Marxist regime in Burma, ship > North Korean rocket fuel to Pakistan and smuggle heroin into Canada. > The Chinese navy sometimes refers to COSCO ships as "zhanjian," or > warships, and boasts that COSCO workers are and will be "ready for battle > into the next century." > The Hong Kong Ming Pao newspaper reports the Chinese navy is stepping up > its refitting of COSCO merchant ships for use in war. COSCO container > ships can be used for both sea and ground operations, ferrying troops and > armored vehicles to launch attacks or land on beaches. > Chinese military officers told Ming Pao that some merchant ships also > could be fitted with large-caliber artillery and multibarrel rocket > launchers, medium- and small-caliber anti-aircraft guns and guided > missiles. The ships also can be used for laying anti-ship mines and for > anti-submarine warfare and to install electronic-deception devices. Li > also is well known for helping Chinese allies. He currently is developing > North Korea’s main harbor and is investing in the outlaw nation. > According to a 1994 dossier written by an "intelligence agency," Li has > "significant economic and political ties to China," including investments > in "a power station, a highway construction project and a large > contribution to Shantou University." > He also has had legal troubles and has a known criminal record. According > to Clinton White House documents, he was "found guilty of insider trading > after a widely publicized trial in 1984; he was not punished by the > courts." > Li has invested more than $1 billion in China and owns most of the dock > space in Hong Kong. In an exclusive deal with China’s communist > government, he has the right of first refusal over all PRC ports south of > the Yangtze River, which involves a close working relationship with the > Chinese military and businesses controlled by the PLA. > He has served as a middleman for PLA business dealings with the West. For > example, he financed several satellite deals between the U.S.-based Hughes > Corp. and China Hong Kong Satellite (CHINASAT), a company owned by the > PLA. > In 1997, U.S. taxpayers would have financed Li and the Chinese navy when > they nearly obtained four American-built huge roll-on/roll-off container > ships, which can be used for transporting military cargo. > U.S. Commerce Department documents also show that law enforcement agencies > were very concerned about Li’s connections to Triad criminal gangs. A 1995 > cable from the U.S. Embassy in Nassau noted that Li had signed an > agreement to build an $88 million container ship terminal in the Bahamas. > Curiously, for a harmless deal done by a Hong Kong tycoon, the copy list > for the cable included several law enforcement agencies, such as Customs > and the Drug Enforcement Agency. > "… U.S. agencies [have] security concerns about possible smuggling > attempts through the terminal," states the cable from the U.S. Embassy. > The late Adm. Thomas Moorer opposed Li and Hutchison Whampoa in his Panama > Canal takeover bid. Moorer, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, > also served as the commander of the Pacific and Atlantic Fleets. > "Of course, the Chinese military sees the benefit of having a base, a > future base, so close to the United States," Moorer said. > "What China is trying to do is get a kind of maritime position worldwide, > and they need a home base – so to speak – in every ocean. "Not only are > the Chinese in the Bahamas, they’re in Panama and the Spratly Islands > right off the Philippines. They tried to get Long Beach [Calif.]," Moorer > said. > "There’s no question about the fact in my mind that the Chinese military > forces are affiliated with Mr. Li, who in turn runs Hutchison Whampoa," > added Moorer. > SOFTWAR DOES NOT SEND UNSOLICITED EMAIL > OFFICIAL SOFTWAR COMMUNICATION > SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER COPYRIGHT (C) 2006 SOFTWAR INC.

Response:

Yes you have "your" priorities straight. You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the world? Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. You are one worthless fucking piece of shit.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports deal is a >> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain control >> of >> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military or >> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >> virtually unnoticed. > Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around 250,000 > personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret ops) > and > a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world COMBINED.  And > enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. > Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

the good guy was tempted by the evil empire.

Response:

China BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in addition to being involved in child slave trade. Mr Soul

Response:

them. But we can’t attack iran without their strategic location. (;>(

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> China > BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very > involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in > addition to being involved in child slave trade. > Mr Soul

Response:

Once again another stupid answer. UAE is on the other side of the Straits. It was a sarcastic joke.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And we need to attack Iran so that we can get their oil, and run a > pipeline > through there. >them. >But we can’t attack iran without their strategic location. (;>( >> China >> BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very >> involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in >> addition to being involved in child slave trade. >> Mr Soul

Response:

And once again , you prove what a fucking idiot you actually are.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes you have "your" priorities straight. > I do… I value things like education over militarism.  I also believe in > diplomacy before violence.  Get YOUR priorities straight, sparky. >You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. > If I didn’t care about my country I wouldn’t bother to criticize it. >You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the >world? > Face reality (I know it’s difficult) and try to get used to the fact that > the cold war is OVER.  Bush and all these guys in the Pentagon are trying > to make the "war on terror" into the new cold war, but it’s bullshit. > The only empire in the word at present is the US… there is no other > threat that comes at all close to the USA in terms of military power.  Not > a chance.  The only reason we maintain all these bases at this point is to > assure that we can remain addicted to cheap fossil fuel.  Just like many > addicts, we’re ready to kill anyone who gets between us and our supplier. >Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. > Read some history, pal.  We won the second world war with a smaller > military than we have now, in terms of firepower.  There was no > military/industrial complex until after WWII. > Who is going to start WW-III, besides the USA, with our constant meddling > and interferring with other sovereign nations?  We’ve started more wars in > since the end of WW-II than in the previous 150 years before that.  We are > pretty much the only aggressor with any real power now that the USSR is > history. >You are one worthless fucking piece of shit. > Jesus loves you… >>>> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports deal is >>>> a >>>> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain >>>> control >>>> of >>>> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military or >>>> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >>>> virtually unnoticed. >> Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around >> 250,000 >> personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret ops) >> and >> a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world COMBINED. >> And >> enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. >> Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

As I recall, correct if wrong, they have been running ports in Miami for years….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The UAE is one big can of worms.  We have been doing business with them for > some time… >China >BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very >involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in >addition to being involved in child slave trade. >Mr Soul

Response:

Cubans? Ricans? WHICH spicks? -just playing- some of the nicest people I know are Latino. Besides, I like dark skinned pooty. Blondes are fun to masturbate into. Oink. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > As I recall, correct if wrong, they have been running ports in Miami for > years….

Response:

I would get a better "debate" from a rock. You are too fucking stupid to know you are stupid, and you prove it constantly.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Once again, you prove you have the emotions and debating skills of a > 6-year > old. >And once again , you prove what a fucking idiot you >actually are. >>>Yes you have "your" priorities straight. >> I do… I value things like education over militarism.  I also believe >> in >> diplomacy before violence.  Get YOUR priorities straight, sparky. >>>You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. >> If I didn’t care about my country I wouldn’t bother to criticize it. >>>You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the >>>world? >> Face reality (I know it’s difficult) and try to get used to the fact >> that >> the cold war is OVER.  Bush and all these guys in the Pentagon are >> trying >> to make the "war on terror" into the new cold war, but it’s bullshit. >> The only empire in the word at present is the US… there is no other >> threat that comes at all close to the USA in terms of military power. >> Not >> a chance.  The only reason we maintain all these bases at this point is >> to >> assure that we can remain addicted to cheap fossil fuel.  Just like many >> addicts, we’re ready to kill anyone who gets between us and our >> supplier. >>>Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. >> Read some history, pal.  We won the second world war with a smaller >> military than we have now, in terms of firepower.  There was no >> military/industrial complex until after WWII. >> Who is going to start WW-III, besides the USA, with our constant >> meddling >> and interferring with other sovereign nations?  We’ve started more wars >> in >> since the end of WW-II than in the previous 150 years before that.  We >> are >> pretty much the only aggressor with any real power now that the USSR is >> history. >>>You are one worthless fucking piece of shit. >> Jesus loves you… >>>>>> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports deal >>>>>> is >>>>>> a >>>>>> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain >>>>>> control >>>>>> of >>>>>> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military >>>>>> or >>>>>> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >>>>>> virtually unnoticed. >>>> Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around >>>> 250,000 >>>> personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret >>>> ops) >>>> and >>>> a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world COMBINED. >>>> And >>>> enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. >>>> Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

What the fuck? You are one fucking stupid S.O.B.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Once again another stupid answer. >UAE is on the other side of the Straits. > Right, that’s why we have military air bases in the UAE I suppose? >It was a sarcastic joke. >> And we need to attack Iran so that we can get their oil, and run a >> pipeline >> through there. >>>them. >>>But we can’t attack iran without their strategic location. (;>( >>>> China >>>> BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very >>>> involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in >>>> addition to being involved in child slave trade. >>>> Mr Soul

Response:

You don’t have a capacity for debate. You are just frustrating & a total waste of anyone’s time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I would get a better "debate" from a rock. You are too fucking stupid to >know you are stupid, and you prove it constantly. > It’s not my fault you are incapable of civilized discussion.  Name calling > is you last resort… >> Once again, you prove you have the emotions and debating skills of a >> 6-year >> old. >>>And once again , you prove what a fucking idiot you >>>actually are. >>>>>Yes you have "your" priorities straight. >>>> I do… I value things like education over militarism.  I also believe >>>> in >>>> diplomacy before violence.  Get YOUR priorities straight, sparky. >>>>>You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. >>>> If I didn’t care about my country I wouldn’t bother to criticize it. >>>>>You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the >>>>>world? >>>> Face reality (I know it’s difficult) and try to get used to the fact >>>> that >>>> the cold war is OVER.  Bush and all these guys in the Pentagon are >>>> trying >>>> to make the "war on terror" into the new cold war, but it’s bullshit. >>>> The only empire in the word at present is the US… there is no other >>>> threat that comes at all close to the USA in terms of military power. >>>> Not >>>> a chance.  The only reason we maintain all these bases at this point >>>> is >>>> to >>>> assure that we can remain addicted to cheap fossil fuel.  Just like >>>> many >>>> addicts, we’re ready to kill anyone who gets between us and our >>>> supplier. >>>>>Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. >>>> Read some history, pal.  We won the second world war with a smaller >>>> military than we have now, in terms of firepower.  There was no >>>> military/industrial complex until after WWII. >>>> Who is going to start WW-III, besides the USA, with our constant >>>> meddling >>>> and interferring with other sovereign nations?  We’ve started more >>>> wars >>>> in >>>> since the end of WW-II than in the previous 150 years before that.  We >>>> are >>>> pretty much the only aggressor with any real power now that the USSR >>>> is >>>> history. >>>>>You are one worthless fucking piece of shit. >>>> Jesus loves you… >>>>>>>> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports >>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain >>>>>>>> control >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >>>>>>>> virtually unnoticed. >>>>>> Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around >>>>>> 250,000 >>>>>> personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret >>>>>> ops) >>>>>> and >>>>>> a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world >>>>>> COMBINED. >>>>>> And >>>>>> enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. >>>>>> Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

I only have so much to time to waste, on you. We still have bases around the planet, so we can at least try to stop shit like happened before. Has nothing to do with the cold war. Also, this morphed in to protecting the bankers & business interests. The other whining bullshit you posted has already been gone over repeatedly. We get it. Your opinion is the U.S. is all bad, the evil of the planet, all the other countries are great. Name the FREE COUNTRIES on this planet. That’s countries where you can have firearms, vote, bitch about your government without being shot, have basic protections from nearly everything. Not be censored<< though that is starting to creep in on us now. Come & go as you please. As much as you run down this country, you would be the first to whine & bitch, if your were inconvenienced in the least. Those sovereign nations we are having to watch, are mostly creations of lines drawn in the sand by 1 English guy & 1 french guy. If you really believe there are not countries that would love to take over & do as they please, you are a waste of time. Oh, I already knew that. America bad, all others great. Fuck off!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nothing new to say, huh Sparky? >I would get a better "debate" from a rock. You are too fucking stupid to >know you are stupid, and you prove it constantly. >> Once again, you prove you have the emotions and debating skills of a >> 6-year >> old. >>>And once again , you prove what a fucking idiot you >>>actually are. >>>>>Yes you have "your" priorities straight. >>>> I do… I value things like education over militarism.  I also believe >>>> in >>>> diplomacy before violence.  Get YOUR priorities straight, sparky. >>>>>You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. >>>> If I didn’t care about my country I wouldn’t bother to criticize it. >>>>>You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the >>>>>world? >>>> Face reality (I know it’s difficult) and try to get used to the fact >>>> that >>>> the cold war is OVER.  Bush and all these guys in the Pentagon are >>>> trying >>>> to make the "war on terror" into the new cold war, but it’s bullshit. >>>> The only empire in the word at present is the US… there is no other >>>> threat that comes at all close to the USA in terms of military power. >>>> Not >>>> a chance.  The only reason we maintain all these bases at this point >>>> is >>>> to >>>> assure that we can remain addicted to cheap fossil fuel.  Just like >>>> many >>>> addicts, we’re ready to kill anyone who gets between us and our >>>> supplier. >>>>>Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. >>>> Read some history, pal.  We won the second world war with a smaller >>>> military than we have now, in terms of firepower.  There was no >>>> military/industrial complex until after WWII. >>>> Who is going to start WW-III, besides the USA, with our constant >>>> meddling >>>> and interferring with other sovereign nations?  We’ve started more >>>> wars >>>> in >>>> since the end of WW-II than in the previous 150 years before that.  We >>>> are >>>> pretty much the only aggressor with any real power now that the USSR >>>> is >>>> history. >>>>>You are one worthless fucking piece of shit. >>>> Jesus loves you… >>>>>>>> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports >>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain >>>>>>>> control >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >>>>>>>> virtually unnoticed. >>>>>> Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around >>>>>> 250,000 >>>>>> personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret >>>>>> ops) >>>>>> and >>>>>> a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world >>>>>> COMBINED. >>>>>> And >>>>>> enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. >>>>>> Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Red China Attains Global Control of Ports > Charles R. Smith > Monday, March 27, 2006 > Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports deal is a > much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain control of > global ports that are strategically positioned to support military or > economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone > virtually unnoticed. > The powerful Chinese-owned Hutchison Whampoa Ltd. is now the world’s > biggest cargo terminal operator, according to London-based Drewry Shipping > Consultants. It also is the world’s largest port owner. > Hutchison Port Holdings has assumed control of scores of potential > economic choke points, including 169 berths at 41 ports worldwide. These > facilities control about 15 percent of global maritime container traffic. > Some of Hutchison’s ports lie near key sea lines of communication, such as > the Panama Canal, the Suez Canal and the eastern coast of the United > States. Of the eight international regions with choke points labeled by > the Department of Defense as "U.S. lifelines and transit regions," > Hutchison has ports in six. > "Amidst the furor over a U.A.E. corporate takeover of major U.S. and > Canadian seaports, scant notice has been given to the longstanding and > continuing threat from the PRC/Triad [People's Republic of China and > Chinese mobsters] ‘business’ presence at seaports around the world, > including the U.S. and Canada," stated a top-level Canadian port security > analyst. > "COSCO [China Ocean Shipping Co.] moved into Vancouver weeks after the > liberal, Sino suck-up government of Canada inexplicably got rid of the > ports police, which of course had nothing to do with the extensive > personal business interests held by the then and future prime ministers. > Now they’re in Halifax and the pattern is identical; they exclude everyone > from their operation, and commercial port operators with dollar signs in > their eyes and God knows what in their pockets blithely proclaim, ‘It’s > good for business.’ No doubt, but whose business — and what is the > business?" stated the analyst. > "Even Hillary Clinton is now decrying the installation of (billionaire) Li > Ka-Shing and his Hutchison Whampoa at both ends of the Panama Canal. Too > bad ethics didn’t trump self-interest when the Clintons approved the deal. > Maybe Hillary is just trolling for a renewal fee from her PRC benefactors. > After all, there’s another campaign on the horizon," noted the analyst. > Asia’s richest man, Li owns Hutchison Whampoa. He is well known outside of > financial circles, having attracted the attention of the U.S. military in > a top-secret document drawn up in 1999 during his successful bid to buy > the Panama Canal ports. > According to the October 1999 "intelligence assessment" prepared by the > U.S. military’s Southern Command, the Hong Kong billionaire is a "threat" > to U.S. national security. > "Hutchison Whampoa’s owner, Hong Kong tycoon Li Ka-Shing, has extensive > business ties in Beijing and has compelling financial reasons to maintain > a good relationship with China’s leadership," states the assessment. > "Hutchison’s containerized shipping facilities in the Panama Canal, as > well as the Bahamas, could provide a conduit for illegal shipments of > technology or prohibited items from the West to the PRC, or facilitate the > movement of arms and other prohibited items into the Americas," states the > 1999 report. > According to a 1999 investigative report by the American Foreign Policy > Council, "Hutchison Whampoa, through its Hutchison International Terminals > subsidiary or Panama Ports Co., has substantial links to the Chinese > communist government and the People’s Liberation Army." > The Hutchison Panama Ports Co. is 10 percent owned by China Resources > Enterprise (CRE), which is the commercial arm of China’s Ministry of Trade > and Economic Cooperation. > In its investigation into China’s attempts to influence the 1996 U.S. > presidential campaign, the U.S. Senate Government Affairs Committee > identified CRE as a conduit for "espionage – economic, political and > military – for China." > The committee’s then-chairman, Sen. Fred Thompson, said that CRE has > "geopolitical purposes. Kind of like a smiling tiger; it might look > friendly, but it’s very dangerous." > Republican Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi has described the Hong Kong firm > as "an arm of the People’s Liberation Army." > Li was a member of the board of the China International Trust and > Investment Corp. (CITIC), a business partner of COSCO. CITIC is the bank > of the Chinese army (People’s Liberation Army, or PLA), providing > financing for Chinese army weapons sales and Western technology purchases. > COSCO is known for its global commercial transport. COSCO also acts as the > merchant marine for the Chinese military. COSCO ships frequently > participate in Chinese naval exercises and are armed with missile > launchers. > COSCO ships have carried weapons to Iran, Pakistan, North Korea and Iraq. > COSCO ships also have carried nuclear weapon components to Pakistan. COSCO > ships have been used to ferry tanks to the Marxist regime in Burma, ship > North Korean rocket fuel to Pakistan and smuggle heroin into Canada. > The Chinese navy sometimes refers to COSCO ships as "zhanjian," or > warships, and boasts that COSCO workers are and will be "ready for battle > into the next century." > The Hong Kong Ming Pao newspaper reports the Chinese navy is stepping up > its refitting of COSCO merchant ships for use in war. COSCO container > ships can be used for both sea and ground operations, ferrying troops and > armored vehicles to launch attacks or land on beaches. > Chinese military officers told Ming Pao that some merchant ships also > could be fitted with large-caliber artillery and multibarrel rocket > launchers, medium- and small-caliber anti-aircraft guns and guided > missiles. The ships also can be used for laying anti-ship mines and for > anti-submarine warfare and to install electronic-deception devices. Li > also is well known for helping Chinese allies. He currently is developing > North Korea’s main harbor and is investing in the outlaw nation. > According to a 1994 dossier written by an "intelligence agency," Li has > "significant economic and political ties to China," including investments > in "a power station, a highway construction project and a large > contribution to Shantou University." > He also has had legal troubles and has a known criminal record. According > to Clinton White House documents, he was "found guilty of insider trading > after a widely publicized trial in 1984; he was not punished by the > courts." > Li has invested more than $1 billion in China and owns most of the dock > space in Hong Kong. In an exclusive deal with China’s communist > government, he has the right of first refusal over all PRC ports south of > the Yangtze River, which involves a close working relationship with the > Chinese military and businesses controlled by the PLA. > He has served as a middleman for PLA business dealings with the West. For > example, he financed several satellite deals between the U.S.-based Hughes > Corp. and China Hong Kong Satellite (CHINASAT), a company owned by the > PLA. > In 1997, U.S. taxpayers would have financed Li and the Chinese navy when > they nearly obtained four American-built huge roll-on/roll-off container > ships, which can be used for transporting military cargo. > U.S. Commerce Department documents also show that law enforcement agencies > were very concerned about Li’s connections to Triad criminal gangs. A 1995 > cable from the U.S. Embassy in Nassau noted that Li had signed an > agreement to build an $88 million container ship terminal in the Bahamas. > Curiously, for a harmless deal done by a Hong Kong tycoon, the copy list > for the cable included several law enforcement agencies, such as Customs > and the Drug Enforcement Agency. > "… U.S. agencies [have] security concerns about possible smuggling > attempts through the terminal," states the cable from the U.S. Embassy. > The late Adm. Thomas Moorer opposed Li and Hutchison Whampoa in his Panama > Canal takeover bid. Moorer, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, > also served as the commander of the Pacific and Atlantic Fleets. > "Of course, the Chinese military sees the benefit of having a base, a > future base, so close to the United States," Moorer said. > "What China is trying to do is get a kind of maritime position worldwide, > and they need a home base – so to speak – in every ocean. "Not only are > the Chinese in the Bahamas, they’re in Panama and the Spratly Islands > right off the Philippines. They tried to get Long Beach [Calif.]," Moorer > said. > "There’s no question about the fact in my mind that the Chinese military > forces are affiliated with Mr. Li, who in turn runs Hutchison Whampoa," > added Moorer. > SOFTWAR DOES NOT SEND UNSOLICITED EMAIL > OFFICIAL SOFTWAR COMMUNICATION > SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER COPYRIGHT (C) 2006 SOFTWAR INC.

Response:

Yes you have "your" priorities straight. You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the world? Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. You are one worthless fucking piece of shit.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports deal is a >> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain control >> of >> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military or >> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >> virtually unnoticed. > Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around 250,000 > personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret ops) > and > a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world COMBINED.  And > enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. > Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

the good guy was tempted by the evil empire.

Response:

China BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in addition to being involved in child slave trade. Mr Soul

Response:

them. But we can’t attack iran without their strategic location. (;>(

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> China > BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very > involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in > addition to being involved in child slave trade. > Mr Soul

Response:

Once again another stupid answer. UAE is on the other side of the Straits. It was a sarcastic joke.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And we need to attack Iran so that we can get their oil, and run a > pipeline > through there. >them. >But we can’t attack iran without their strategic location. (;>( >> China >> BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very >> involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in >> addition to being involved in child slave trade. >> Mr Soul

Response:

And once again , you prove what a fucking idiot you actually are.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes you have "your" priorities straight. > I do… I value things like education over militarism.  I also believe in > diplomacy before violence.  Get YOUR priorities straight, sparky. >You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. > If I didn’t care about my country I wouldn’t bother to criticize it. >You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the >world? > Face reality (I know it’s difficult) and try to get used to the fact that > the cold war is OVER.  Bush and all these guys in the Pentagon are trying > to make the "war on terror" into the new cold war, but it’s bullshit. > The only empire in the word at present is the US… there is no other > threat that comes at all close to the USA in terms of military power.  Not > a chance.  The only reason we maintain all these bases at this point is to > assure that we can remain addicted to cheap fossil fuel.  Just like many > addicts, we’re ready to kill anyone who gets between us and our supplier. >Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. > Read some history, pal.  We won the second world war with a smaller > military than we have now, in terms of firepower.  There was no > military/industrial complex until after WWII. > Who is going to start WW-III, besides the USA, with our constant meddling > and interferring with other sovereign nations?  We’ve started more wars in > since the end of WW-II than in the previous 150 years before that.  We are > pretty much the only aggressor with any real power now that the USSR is > history. >You are one worthless fucking piece of shit. > Jesus loves you… >>>> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports deal is >>>> a >>>> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain >>>> control >>>> of >>>> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military or >>>> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >>>> virtually unnoticed. >> Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around >> 250,000 >> personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret ops) >> and >> a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world COMBINED. >> And >> enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. >> Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

As I recall, correct if wrong, they have been running ports in Miami for years….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The UAE is one big can of worms.  We have been doing business with them for > some time… >China >BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very >involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in >addition to being involved in child slave trade. >Mr Soul

Response:

Cubans? Ricans? WHICH spicks? -just playing- some of the nicest people I know are Latino. Besides, I like dark skinned pooty. Blondes are fun to masturbate into. Oink. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > As I recall, correct if wrong, they have been running ports in Miami for > years….

Response:

I would get a better "debate" from a rock. You are too fucking stupid to know you are stupid, and you prove it constantly.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Once again, you prove you have the emotions and debating skills of a > 6-year > old. >And once again , you prove what a fucking idiot you >actually are. >>>Yes you have "your" priorities straight. >> I do… I value things like education over militarism.  I also believe >> in >> diplomacy before violence.  Get YOUR priorities straight, sparky. >>>You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. >> If I didn’t care about my country I wouldn’t bother to criticize it. >>>You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the >>>world? >> Face reality (I know it’s difficult) and try to get used to the fact >> that >> the cold war is OVER.  Bush and all these guys in the Pentagon are >> trying >> to make the "war on terror" into the new cold war, but it’s bullshit. >> The only empire in the word at present is the US… there is no other >> threat that comes at all close to the USA in terms of military power. >> Not >> a chance.  The only reason we maintain all these bases at this point is >> to >> assure that we can remain addicted to cheap fossil fuel.  Just like many >> addicts, we’re ready to kill anyone who gets between us and our >> supplier. >>>Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. >> Read some history, pal.  We won the second world war with a smaller >> military than we have now, in terms of firepower.  There was no >> military/industrial complex until after WWII. >> Who is going to start WW-III, besides the USA, with our constant >> meddling >> and interferring with other sovereign nations?  We’ve started more wars >> in >> since the end of WW-II than in the previous 150 years before that.  We >> are >> pretty much the only aggressor with any real power now that the USSR is >> history. >>>You are one worthless fucking piece of shit. >> Jesus loves you… >>>>>> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports deal >>>>>> is >>>>>> a >>>>>> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain >>>>>> control >>>>>> of >>>>>> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military >>>>>> or >>>>>> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >>>>>> virtually unnoticed. >>>> Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around >>>> 250,000 >>>> personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret >>>> ops) >>>> and >>>> a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world COMBINED. >>>> And >>>> enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. >>>> Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

What the fuck? You are one fucking stupid S.O.B.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Once again another stupid answer. >UAE is on the other side of the Straits. > Right, that’s why we have military air bases in the UAE I suppose? >It was a sarcastic joke. >> And we need to attack Iran so that we can get their oil, and run a >> pipeline >> through there. >>>them. >>>But we can’t attack iran without their strategic location. (;>( >>>> China >>>> BTW – I read an article about the UAE yesterday & there have been very >>>> involved with terrorism, more than what the 9/11 Commission cited, in >>>> addition to being involved in child slave trade. >>>> Mr Soul

Response:

You don’t have a capacity for debate. You are just frustrating & a total waste of anyone’s time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I would get a better "debate" from a rock. You are too fucking stupid to >know you are stupid, and you prove it constantly. > It’s not my fault you are incapable of civilized discussion.  Name calling > is you last resort… >> Once again, you prove you have the emotions and debating skills of a >> 6-year >> old. >>>And once again , you prove what a fucking idiot you >>>actually are. >>>>>Yes you have "your" priorities straight. >>>> I do… I value things like education over militarism.  I also believe >>>> in >>>> diplomacy before violence.  Get YOUR priorities straight, sparky. >>>>>You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. >>>> If I didn’t care about my country I wouldn’t bother to criticize it. >>>>>You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the >>>>>world? >>>> Face reality (I know it’s difficult) and try to get used to the fact >>>> that >>>> the cold war is OVER.  Bush and all these guys in the Pentagon are >>>> trying >>>> to make the "war on terror" into the new cold war, but it’s bullshit. >>>> The only empire in the word at present is the US… there is no other >>>> threat that comes at all close to the USA in terms of military power. >>>> Not >>>> a chance.  The only reason we maintain all these bases at this point >>>> is >>>> to >>>> assure that we can remain addicted to cheap fossil fuel.  Just like >>>> many >>>> addicts, we’re ready to kill anyone who gets between us and our >>>> supplier. >>>>>Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. >>>> Read some history, pal.  We won the second world war with a smaller >>>> military than we have now, in terms of firepower.  There was no >>>> military/industrial complex until after WWII. >>>> Who is going to start WW-III, besides the USA, with our constant >>>> meddling >>>> and interferring with other sovereign nations?  We’ve started more >>>> wars >>>> in >>>> since the end of WW-II than in the previous 150 years before that.  We >>>> are >>>> pretty much the only aggressor with any real power now that the USSR >>>> is >>>> history. >>>>>You are one worthless fucking piece of shit. >>>> Jesus loves you… >>>>>>>> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports >>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain >>>>>>>> control >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >>>>>>>> virtually unnoticed. >>>>>> Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around >>>>>> 250,000 >>>>>> personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret >>>>>> ops) >>>>>> and >>>>>> a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world >>>>>> COMBINED. >>>>>> And >>>>>> enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. >>>>>> Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

I only have so much to time to waste, on you. We still have bases around the planet, so we can at least try to stop shit like happened before. Has nothing to do with the cold war. Also, this morphed in to protecting the bankers & business interests. The other whining bullshit you posted has already been gone over repeatedly. We get it. Your opinion is the U.S. is all bad, the evil of the planet, all the other countries are great. Name the FREE COUNTRIES on this planet. That’s countries where you can have firearms, vote, bitch about your government without being shot, have basic protections from nearly everything. Not be censored<< though that is starting to creep in on us now. Come & go as you please. As much as you run down this country, you would be the first to whine & bitch, if your were inconvenienced in the least. Those sovereign nations we are having to watch, are mostly creations of lines drawn in the sand by 1 English guy & 1 french guy. If you really believe there are not countries that would love to take over & do as they please, you are a waste of time. Oh, I already knew that. America bad, all others great. Fuck off!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nothing new to say, huh Sparky? >I would get a better "debate" from a rock. You are too fucking stupid to >know you are stupid, and you prove it constantly. >> Once again, you prove you have the emotions and debating skills of a >> 6-year >> old. >>>And once again , you prove what a fucking idiot you >>>actually are. >>>>>Yes you have "your" priorities straight. >>>> I do… I value things like education over militarism.  I also believe >>>> in >>>> diplomacy before violence.  Get YOUR priorities straight, sparky. >>>>>You should really move to china, as bad as you hate this country. >>>> If I didn’t care about my country I wouldn’t bother to criticize it. >>>>>You fucking idiot, why exactly do we have all these bases around the >>>>>world? >>>> Face reality (I know it’s difficult) and try to get used to the fact >>>> that >>>> the cold war is OVER.  Bush and all these guys in the Pentagon are >>>> trying >>>> to make the "war on terror" into the new cold war, but it’s bullshit. >>>> The only empire in the word at present is the US… there is no other >>>> threat that comes at all close to the USA in terms of military power. >>>> Not >>>> a chance.  The only reason we maintain all these bases at this point >>>> is >>>> to >>>> assure that we can remain addicted to cheap fossil fuel.  Just like >>>> many >>>> addicts, we’re ready to kill anyone who gets between us and our >>>> supplier. >>>>>Because of 2 fucking world wars started by evil fucking empires. >>>> Read some history, pal.  We won the second world war with a smaller >>>> military than we have now, in terms of firepower.  There was no >>>> military/industrial complex until after WWII. >>>> Who is going to start WW-III, besides the USA, with our constant >>>> meddling >>>> and interferring with other sovereign nations?  We’ve started more >>>> wars >>>> in >>>> since the end of WW-II than in the previous 150 years before that.  We >>>> are >>>> pretty much the only aggressor with any real power now that the USSR >>>> is >>>> history. >>>>>You are one worthless fucking piece of shit. >>>> Jesus loves you… >>>>>>>> Overlooked during America’s preoccupation with the Dubai ports >>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> much more imminent threat – China’s methodical campaign to gain >>>>>>>> control >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> global ports that are strategically positioned to support military >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> economic actions against the United States – a move that has gone >>>>>>>> virtually unnoticed. >>>>>> Meanwhile, the US has over 700 bases around the world, with around >>>>>> 250,000 >>>>>> personell deployed outside the "homeland" (not counting the secret >>>>>> ops) >>>>>> and >>>>>> a larger military budget than most of the rest of the world >>>>>> COMBINED. >>>>>> And >>>>>> enough nukes to blown up the earth about 50 times. >>>>>> Who has the empire, US or China?

Response:

American Press -(AP)- 09/02/2005 Ann Coulter, Lawyer, writer, and consultant to the 3rd term reelection plans of President George Bush, released a statement from her estate in Southern France declaring that the "Looting situation in New Orleans has been over exaggerated by the liberal press and those involved should not be held accountable for any of the properties borrowed". She continued that "Those liberal TV producers and idiot NBC news "hosts"  immediately assumed the video showing excited,  laughing black youths and elders in wheel chairs carrying merchandise  to high ground were criminal in nature." Coulter later contended that the Walmart family ran businesses has done wonders in the South for "those people" by providing cheap, affordable products from China to a culture that has long been under the control of the White Man liberal pigs. Rush Limbaugh broadcasting from his 42,000 sq foot estate in Florida because of house arrest for another Oxycodone  purchase from a Cuban underground FBI agent,  questioned the likelihood that Katrina was actually that large of a Category 5 storm, citing that when the hurricane passed over Florida "it barely blew leafs on the driveway here" forcing his grounds keeper and staff of 24 working overtime on the recent weekend. Limbaugh further contented that the mass liberal coverage is nothing more than a Hillary Clinton inspired operation to discredit the President "in the face of the American People". Limburg further added that "These (sic) people will go to great extremes to pursue and blame our President for the abusive corrupt power of nature that not even George W. Bush yields power over". This week’s devastating hurricane and flood hit the Gulf Coast of the United States, taking lives, destroying homes and businesses, cutting off water and power supplies, and leaving hundreds of thousands of individuals and families homeless. Most recent reports tell us that it will take weeks, if not months, for the area to begin to recover from this disaster. FOX News Network has decided that the event is not  "news worthy enough to consume twenty four ongoing coverage" and will continue most of it’s regular broadcast schedule this holiday weekend with a prolonged O’Reilly Factor reruns from the week of  September 11 2000 attack on the Twin Towers, and a made for FOX TV movie "The Ted Kennedy Years".

Response:

How ever all that may be (I don’t read those folks), it amazes me how the liberals don’t seem to realize how insane their "It’s all Bush’s fault" line sounds among regular people at the water cooler. This may be their last gasp for 2006, because this is the shit that backlash *nightmares* are made of. Even on 9/11 they waited some days to come out in earnest claiming it was Bush’s fault, and let it seem that we were all in it together for a *little* while. But this is just ghoulish. They aren’t even PRETENDING that what matters to them is helping the people of N.O. They just want political blood, right out in the open, from day One. Nobody tell them, ok? Let them ride it for a while. This could be the straw that finally breaks the donkey’s back. Freep – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> American Press > -(AP)- 09/02/2005 > Ann Coulter, Lawyer, writer, and consultant to the 3rd term reelection > plans of President George Bush, released a statement from her estate in > Southern France declaring > that the "Looting situation in New Orleans has been over exaggerated by > the liberal press and those involved should not be held accountable for > any of the properties borrowed". She continued that "Those liberal > TV producers and idiot NBC news "hosts"  immediately assumed the > video showing excited,  laughing black youths and elders in wheel > chairs carrying merchandise  to high ground were criminal in nature." > Coulter later contended that the Walmart family ran businesses has done > wonders in the South for "those people" by providing cheap, > affordable products from China to a culture that has long been under > the control of the White Man liberal pigs. > Rush Limbaugh broadcasting from his 42,000 sq foot estate in Florida > because of house arrest for another Oxycodone  purchase from a Cuban > underground FBI agent,  questioned the likelihood that Katrina was > actually that large of a Category 5 storm, citing that when the > hurricane passed over Florida "it barely blew leafs on the driveway > here" forcing his grounds keeper and staff of 24 working overtime on > the recent weekend. Limbaugh further contented that the mass liberal > coverage is nothing more than a Hillary Clinton inspired operation to > discredit the President "in the face of the American People". > Limburg further added that "These (sic) people will go to great > extremes to pursue and blame our President for the abusive corrupt > power of nature that not even George W. Bush yields power over". > This week’s devastating hurricane and flood hit the Gulf Coast of the > United States, taking lives, destroying homes and businesses, cutting > off water and power supplies, and leaving hundreds of thousands of > individuals and families homeless. Most recent reports tell us that it > will take weeks, if not months, for the area to begin to recover from > this disaster. > FOX News Network has decided that the event is not  "news worthy > enough to consume twenty four ongoing coverage" and will continue > most of it’s regular broadcast schedule this holiday weekend with a > prolonged O’Reilly Factor reruns from the week of  September 11 2000 > attack on the Twin Towers, and a made for FOX TV movie "The Ted > Kennedy Years".

Response:

How ever all that may be (I don’t read those folks), it amazes me how the conversitives don’t seem to realize how insane their "It’s all Clintons fault" line sounds among regular people at the water cooler. This may be their last gasp for 2006, because this is the shit that backlash *nightmares* are made of. Even on 9/11 they waited some days to come out in earnest claiming it was Clintons’s fault, and let it seem that we were all in it together for a *little* while. But this is just ghoulish. They aren’t even PRETENDING that what matters to them is helping the people of N.O. They just want political blood, right out in the open, from day One. Nobody tell them, ok? Let them ride it for a while. This could be the straw that finally breaks the elpanhant’s back. wb

Response:

Fair enough. We’ll see who’s right, then.  Since the Clinton thing didn’t break us, though (3 elections of gains across the board since Clinton), the best YOU can hope for at this point, is a stalemate. Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How ever all that may be (I don’t read those folks), it amazes me how > the > conversitives don’t seem to realize how insane their "It’s all Clintons > fault" line > sounds among regular people at the water cooler. This may be their last > gasp > for 2006, because this is the shit that backlash *nightmares* are made > of. > Even on 9/11 they waited some days to come out in earnest claiming it > was > Clintons’s fault, and let it seem that we were all in it together for a > *little* > while. But this is just ghoulish. They aren’t even PRETENDING that what > matters to them is helping the people of N.O. They just want political > blood, right out in the open, from day One. > Nobody tell them, ok? Let them ride it for a while. This could be the > straw > that finally breaks the elpanhant’s back. > wb

Response:

I’ve never seen a more disgusting, horrifying, insulting, offending lying partisan hate mongers than these crop of people we have today, and I’m just talking about AGA  ;-)  !  No really. The claims by either side(s) are just so outrageous that  it getting extremely difficult to even whom to believe and have any interest in the out come  of any topic ! It’s all so divided that living in a 1 room cabin in Montana mountains is really starting to become an interesting proposal to consider.  Pondering the cost of what NO crisis is going to end up is really going to make that section of the South worse than alot 3rd world countries.

Response:

Well, I’ll say this, Clinton was much more articulate about this disaster than Daddy Bush or Shrub. At least Clinton can walk AND talk while getting a blow job.

Response:

courageously avow: >Well, I’ll say this, Clinton was much more articulate about this >disaster than Daddy Bush or Shrub. At least Clinton can walk AND talk >while getting a blow job. >;)

He’s probably a premi but figures while she’s down there don’t let the effort go to waste.  That would explain how the splooge somehow ended up on here dress.  That or he’s got bad aim. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

Response:

American Press -(AP)- 09/02/2005 Ann Coulter, Lawyer, writer, and consultant to the 3rd term reelection plans of President George Bush, released a statement from her estate in Southern France declaring that the "Looting situation in New Orleans has been over exaggerated by the liberal press and those involved should not be held accountable for any of the properties borrowed". She continued that "Those liberal TV producers and idiot NBC news "hosts"  immediately assumed the video showing excited,  laughing black youths and elders in wheel chairs carrying merchandise  to high ground were criminal in nature." Coulter later contended that the Walmart family ran businesses has done wonders in the South for "those people" by providing cheap, affordable products from China to a culture that has long been under the control of the White Man liberal pigs. Rush Limbaugh broadcasting from his 42,000 sq foot estate in Florida because of house arrest for another Oxycodone  purchase from a Cuban underground FBI agent,  questioned the likelihood that Katrina was actually that large of a Category 5 storm, citing that when the hurricane passed over Florida "it barely blew leafs on the driveway here" forcing his grounds keeper and staff of 24 working overtime on the recent weekend. Limbaugh further contented that the mass liberal coverage is nothing more than a Hillary Clinton inspired operation to discredit the President "in the face of the American People". Limburg further added that "These (sic) people will go to great extremes to pursue and blame our President for the abusive corrupt power of nature that not even George W. Bush yields power over". This week’s devastating hurricane and flood hit the Gulf Coast of the United States, taking lives, destroying homes and businesses, cutting off water and power supplies, and leaving hundreds of thousands of individuals and families homeless. Most recent reports tell us that it will take weeks, if not months, for the area to begin to recover from this disaster. FOX News Network has decided that the event is not  "news worthy enough to consume twenty four ongoing coverage" and will continue most of it’s regular broadcast schedule this holiday weekend with a prolonged O’Reilly Factor reruns from the week of  September 11 2000 attack on the Twin Towers, and a made for FOX TV movie "The Ted Kennedy Years".

Response:

How ever all that may be (I don’t read those folks), it amazes me how the liberals don’t seem to realize how insane their "It’s all Bush’s fault" line sounds among regular people at the water cooler. This may be their last gasp for 2006, because this is the shit that backlash *nightmares* are made of. Even on 9/11 they waited some days to come out in earnest claiming it was Bush’s fault, and let it seem that we were all in it together for a *little* while. But this is just ghoulish. They aren’t even PRETENDING that what matters to them is helping the people of N.O. They just want political blood, right out in the open, from day One. Nobody tell them, ok? Let them ride it for a while. This could be the straw that finally breaks the donkey’s back. Freep – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> American Press > -(AP)- 09/02/2005 > Ann Coulter, Lawyer, writer, and consultant to the 3rd term reelection > plans of President George Bush, released a statement from her estate in > Southern France declaring > that the "Looting situation in New Orleans has been over exaggerated by > the liberal press and those involved should not be held accountable for > any of the properties borrowed". She continued that "Those liberal > TV producers and idiot NBC news "hosts"  immediately assumed the > video showing excited,  laughing black youths and elders in wheel > chairs carrying merchandise  to high ground were criminal in nature." > Coulter later contended that the Walmart family ran businesses has done > wonders in the South for "those people" by providing cheap, > affordable products from China to a culture that has long been under > the control of the White Man liberal pigs. > Rush Limbaugh broadcasting from his 42,000 sq foot estate in Florida > because of house arrest for another Oxycodone  purchase from a Cuban > underground FBI agent,  questioned the likelihood that Katrina was > actually that large of a Category 5 storm, citing that when the > hurricane passed over Florida "it barely blew leafs on the driveway > here" forcing his grounds keeper and staff of 24 working overtime on > the recent weekend. Limbaugh further contented that the mass liberal > coverage is nothing more than a Hillary Clinton inspired operation to > discredit the President "in the face of the American People". > Limburg further added that "These (sic) people will go to great > extremes to pursue and blame our President for the abusive corrupt > power of nature that not even George W. Bush yields power over". > This week’s devastating hurricane and flood hit the Gulf Coast of the > United States, taking lives, destroying homes and businesses, cutting > off water and power supplies, and leaving hundreds of thousands of > individuals and families homeless. Most recent reports tell us that it > will take weeks, if not months, for the area to begin to recover from > this disaster. > FOX News Network has decided that the event is not  "news worthy > enough to consume twenty four ongoing coverage" and will continue > most of it’s regular broadcast schedule this holiday weekend with a > prolonged O’Reilly Factor reruns from the week of  September 11 2000 > attack on the Twin Towers, and a made for FOX TV movie "The Ted > Kennedy Years".

Response:

How ever all that may be (I don’t read those folks), it amazes me how the conversitives don’t seem to realize how insane their "It’s all Clintons fault" line sounds among regular people at the water cooler. This may be their last gasp for 2006, because this is the shit that backlash *nightmares* are made of. Even on 9/11 they waited some days to come out in earnest claiming it was Clintons’s fault, and let it seem that we were all in it together for a *little* while. But this is just ghoulish. They aren’t even PRETENDING that what matters to them is helping the people of N.O. They just want political blood, right out in the open, from day One. Nobody tell them, ok? Let them ride it for a while. This could be the straw that finally breaks the elpanhant’s back. wb

Response:

Fair enough. We’ll see who’s right, then.  Since the Clinton thing didn’t break us, though (3 elections of gains across the board since Clinton), the best YOU can hope for at this point, is a stalemate. Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How ever all that may be (I don’t read those folks), it amazes me how > the > conversitives don’t seem to realize how insane their "It’s all Clintons > fault" line > sounds among regular people at the water cooler. This may be their last > gasp > for 2006, because this is the shit that backlash *nightmares* are made > of. > Even on 9/11 they waited some days to come out in earnest claiming it > was > Clintons’s fault, and let it seem that we were all in it together for a > *little* > while. But this is just ghoulish. They aren’t even PRETENDING that what > matters to them is helping the people of N.O. They just want political > blood, right out in the open, from day One. > Nobody tell them, ok? Let them ride it for a while. This could be the > straw > that finally breaks the elpanhant’s back. > wb

Response:

I’ve never seen a more disgusting, horrifying, insulting, offending lying partisan hate mongers than these crop of people we have today, and I’m just talking about AGA  ;-)  !  No really. The claims by either side(s) are just so outrageous that  it getting extremely difficult to even whom to believe and have any interest in the out come  of any topic ! It’s all so divided that living in a 1 room cabin in Montana mountains is really starting to become an interesting proposal to consider.  Pondering the cost of what NO crisis is going to end up is really going to make that section of the South worse than alot 3rd world countries.

Response:

Well, I’ll say this, Clinton was much more articulate about this disaster than Daddy Bush or Shrub. At least Clinton can walk AND talk while getting a blow job.

Response:

courageously avow: >Well, I’ll say this, Clinton was much more articulate about this >disaster than Daddy Bush or Shrub. At least Clinton can walk AND talk >while getting a blow job. >;)

He’s probably a premi but figures while she’s down there don’t let the effort go to waste.  That would explain how the splooge somehow ended up on here dress.  That or he’s got bad aim. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

Response:

First Saudi woman pilot to fly as driving debate rages on RIYADH – While the debate over whether Saudi women should be allowed to drive rages on, Captain Hanadi Hindi will soon become the first woman to fly a plane with the private fleet of a prince. Hindi, 27, is preparing to take to the skies at a time when supporters and opponents of lifting the ban on women’s driving in the conservative kingdom are still fighting it out in the local press. "I never meant to be a pioneer. When I started learning to become a pilot, I did so for my father, who himself had aspired to be a pilot. I then got attached to flying," Hindi said by telephone from her home in the Muslim holy city of Mecca. Prince Al Walid bin Talal’s decision to make Hindi part of his private crew has drawn criticism from some conservative Muslim scholars, who object to any easing of constraints that bar Saudi women from mixing with men other than relatives or traveling without the authorization of a male guardian. But Hindi said the billionaire entrepreneur’s Kingdom Holding Company had also hired her father, Zakariya Hindi, as a legal consultant. He will accompany her on all her trips "so that no one will say that I am traveling without a male relative." Hindi said she is heading to London in about three weeks for a three-month training course before she takes up her job as a pilot for Prince Al-Walid. Kingdom Holding hired Hindi even before she clinched her Commercial Pilot’s Licence and an Instrument Rating (CPL and IR) from the Mideast Aviation Academy in Jordan last month. The company, which runs a worldwide business empire, had offered Hindi a scholarship to carry her through her last year at the Jordanian academy, and Prince Al Walid took out doublespread advertisements in the press to congratulate her on taking her CPL.  "I thank God that Prince Al-Walid has given me the opportunity to serve my country and serve His Highness, bearing in mind that he is a member of the royal family," Hindi said. Hindi said that before the prince offered her a 10-year contract, she feared she might not find a job in Saudi Arabia. Her apprehensions were well-grounded, given that women in the Muslim country are still excluded from many professions that would appear less controversial than piloting a plane and are the only women in the world banned from driving a car. The appointed Shura (consultative) Council in May shelved the suggestion of Mohammad Al Zalfa, who cited a host of economic reasons to end the ban, such as the fact that the prohibition has led to the presence of around a million foreign drivers who cost the country 12 billion riyals (3.2 billion dollars) a year.

Response:

oh yaaa .. Baby , Let me welcome you to the exclusive Mile High Club.

Response:

First Saudi woman pilot to fly as driving debate rages on RIYADH – While the debate over whether Saudi women should be allowed to drive rages on, Captain Hanadi Hindi will soon become the first woman to fly a plane with the private fleet of a prince. Hindi, 27, is preparing to take to the skies at a time when supporters and opponents of lifting the ban on women’s driving in the conservative kingdom are still fighting it out in the local press. "I never meant to be a pioneer. When I started learning to become a pilot, I did so for my father, who himself had aspired to be a pilot. I then got attached to flying," Hindi said by telephone from her home in the Muslim holy city of Mecca. Prince Al Walid bin Talal’s decision to make Hindi part of his private crew has drawn criticism from some conservative Muslim scholars, who object to any easing of constraints that bar Saudi women from mixing with men other than relatives or traveling without the authorization of a male guardian. But Hindi said the billionaire entrepreneur’s Kingdom Holding Company had also hired her father, Zakariya Hindi, as a legal consultant. He will accompany her on all her trips "so that no one will say that I am traveling without a male relative." Hindi said she is heading to London in about three weeks for a three-month training course before she takes up her job as a pilot for Prince Al-Walid. Kingdom Holding hired Hindi even before she clinched her Commercial Pilot’s Licence and an Instrument Rating (CPL and IR) from the Mideast Aviation Academy in Jordan last month. The company, which runs a worldwide business empire, had offered Hindi a scholarship to carry her through her last year at the Jordanian academy, and Prince Al Walid took out doublespread advertisements in the press to congratulate her on taking her CPL.  "I thank God that Prince Al-Walid has given me the opportunity to serve my country and serve His Highness, bearing in mind that he is a member of the royal family," Hindi said. Hindi said that before the prince offered her a 10-year contract, she feared she might not find a job in Saudi Arabia. Her apprehensions were well-grounded, given that women in the Muslim country are still excluded from many professions that would appear less controversial than piloting a plane and are the only women in the world banned from driving a car. The appointed Shura (consultative) Council in May shelved the suggestion of Mohammad Al Zalfa, who cited a host of economic reasons to end the ban, such as the fact that the prohibition has led to the presence of around a million foreign drivers who cost the country 12 billion riyals (3.2 billion dollars) a year.

Response:

oh yaaa .. Baby , Let me welcome you to the exclusive Mile High Club.

Response:

Barbara, I’m cruising on the Zuiderdam in April. One of the reason’s I did not pick the Caribbean Princess was the passenger capcity. I really like Princess , but every complaint I read was about how crowded it was. I was told by my customers that Zuiderdam gives a smooth ride. I am also doing Eastern.   Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

ZEIDERDAM  / very nice == SPA is wonderful == new mattresses are perfect

Response:

We did Eastern Caribbean on Zuiderdam in Nov-Dec 2003. Fantastic ship, great experiences, top service, really nothing to complain about. Two of our dining mates had personal problems on St Martin (they were mugged-robbed) but other than that we have no ill feelings about any of the cruise. We did experience some rough seas, and our day on Half Moon Cay was cool, overcast and windy. St Martin offered the best prices for liquor, cameras and the like, and St Thomas was slightly higher but still better than Nassau. Speaking of Nassau… we did Atlantis and I love it!

Response:

Hi I want to go with my Daughter to the Eastern Caribbean Which Ship is best to go on?  She was seasick on the Golden Princess and Zeiderdam is a smaller ship But Caribbean Princess has 500 more people on it which would make it crowded for dining and shows We want to go in May 2005 and need help in deciding Thank you to all who respond   Barbara

Response:

> Hi I want to go with my Daughter to the Eastern Caribbean Which Ship is > best to go on?  She was seasick on the Golden Princess and Zeiderdam is > a smaller ship But Caribbean Princess has 500 more people on it which > would make it crowded for dining and shows We want to go in May 2005 and > need help in deciding Thank you to all who respond   Barbara

I’ll give you a whole different thing to consider. The Eastern Caribbean is all open water.  It’s the real Atlantic Ocean. Quite a bit of rough water.  Very prone to seasickness.  We’ve had some of the worst seas on the Eastern Caribbean – 17 ft. waves and 65 mph winds around St. Maarten, St. Thomas and San Juan, Puerto Rico.  That just tends to be a rough area.  It’s the real Atlantic Ocean, not the quiet Caribbean Sea. The Western Caribbean, on the other hand has more protected waters.  Much of the time the ship is south of Cuba, which acts like a HUGE wind and wave break.  The water tends to be ultra calm.  Much of the time all you will see is mild ripples of water.  No waves or white caps.  Even for the path down, the ship travels close to Florida in waters which are protected somewhat by the Bahamas.  And once south of Cuba it’s VERY calm. If you’re worried about seasickness, I’d strongly recommend the Western Caribbean.  Another consideration, we found the ultra huge Royal Caribbean Voyager class ships to be rather stable in the Western Caribbean.  The Celebrity ship Century, though now a bit older than the other ships you’re considering, was also very stable.  As were the Carnival Destiny class ships.  Some ships are just more stable than others.  We found Grand Princess to be rather un-stable.  Very prone to be blown around by winds, more so than waves.   Here sister ship Caribbean Princess is even higher (more subject to wind). My suggestion:  Western Caribbean, on Navigator of the Seas.  Ultra huge ship on an ultra calm itinerary. –Tom

Response:

Hi I want to go with my Daughter to the Eastern Caribbean Which Ship is best to go on?  She was seasick on the Golden Princess and Zeiderdam is a smaller ship But Caribbean Princess has 500 more people on it which would make it crowded for dining and shows We want to go in May 2005 and need help in deciding Thank you to all who respond   Barbara

Response:

> Hi I want to go with my Daughter to the Eastern Caribbean Which Ship is > best to go on?  She was seasick on the Golden Princess and Zeiderdam is > a smaller ship But Caribbean Princess has 500 more people on it which > would make it crowded for dining and shows We want to go in May 2005 and > need help in deciding Thank you to all who respond   Barbara

I’ll give you a whole different thing to consider. The Eastern Caribbean is all open water.  It’s the real Atlantic Ocean. Quite a bit of rough water.  Very prone to seasickness.  We’ve had some of the worst seas on the Eastern Caribbean – 17 ft. waves and 65 mph winds around St. Maarten, St. Thomas and San Juan, Puerto Rico.  That just tends to be a rough area.  It’s the real Atlantic Ocean, not the quiet Caribbean Sea. The Western Caribbean, on the other hand has more protected waters.  Much of the time the ship is south of Cuba, which acts like a HUGE wind and wave break.  The water tends to be ultra calm.  Much of the time all you will see is mild ripples of water.  No waves or white caps.  Even for the path down, the ship travels close to Florida in waters which are protected somewhat by the Bahamas.  And once south of Cuba it’s VERY calm. If you’re worried about seasickness, I’d strongly recommend the Western Caribbean.  Another consideration, we found the ultra huge Royal Caribbean Voyager class ships to be rather stable in the Western Caribbean.  The Celebrity ship Century, though now a bit older than the other ships you’re considering, was also very stable.  As were the Carnival Destiny class ships.  Some ships are just more stable than others.  We found Grand Princess to be rather un-stable.  Very prone to be blown around by winds, more so than waves.   Here sister ship Caribbean Princess is even higher (more subject to wind). My suggestion:  Western Caribbean, on Navigator of the Seas.  Ultra huge ship on an ultra calm itinerary. –Tom

Response:

We did Eastern Caribbean on Zuiderdam in Nov-Dec 2003. Fantastic ship, great experiences, top service, really nothing to complain about. Two of our dining mates had personal problems on St Martin (they were mugged-robbed) but other than that we have no ill feelings about any of the cruise. We did experience some rough seas, and our day on Half Moon Cay was cool, overcast and windy. St Martin offered the best prices for liquor, cameras and the like, and St Thomas was slightly higher but still better than Nassau. Speaking of Nassau… we did Atlantis and I love it!

Response:

Barbara, I’m cruising on the Zuiderdam in April. One of the reason’s I did not pick the Caribbean Princess was the passenger capcity. I really like Princess , but every complaint I read was about how crowded it was. I was told by my customers that Zuiderdam gives a smooth ride. I am also doing Eastern.   Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

ZEIDERDAM  / very nice == SPA is wonderful == new mattresses are perfect

Response:

Barbara, I’m cruising on the Zuiderdam in April. One of the reason’s I did not pick the Caribbean Princess was the passenger capcity. I really like Princess , but every complaint I read was about how crowded it was. I was told by my customers that Zuiderdam gives a smooth ride. I am also doing Eastern.   Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

ZEIDERDAM  / very nice == SPA is wonderful == new mattresses are perfect

Response:

We did Eastern Caribbean on Zuiderdam in Nov-Dec 2003. Fantastic ship, great experiences, top service, really nothing to complain about. Two of our dining mates had personal problems on St Martin (they were mugged-robbed) but other than that we have no ill feelings about any of the cruise. We did experience some rough seas, and our day on Half Moon Cay was cool, overcast and windy. St Martin offered the best prices for liquor, cameras and the like, and St Thomas was slightly higher but still better than Nassau. Speaking of Nassau… we did Atlantis and I love it!

Response:

Hi I want to go with my Daughter to the Eastern Caribbean Which Ship is best to go on?  She was seasick on the Golden Princess and Zeiderdam is a smaller ship But Caribbean Princess has 500 more people on it which would make it crowded for dining and shows We want to go in May 2005 and need help in deciding Thank you to all who respond   Barbara

Response:

> Hi I want to go with my Daughter to the Eastern Caribbean Which Ship is > best to go on?  She was seasick on the Golden Princess and Zeiderdam is > a smaller ship But Caribbean Princess has 500 more people on it which > would make it crowded for dining and shows We want to go in May 2005 and > need help in deciding Thank you to all who respond   Barbara

I’ll give you a whole different thing to consider. The Eastern Caribbean is all open water.  It’s the real Atlantic Ocean. Quite a bit of rough water.  Very prone to seasickness.  We’ve had some of the worst seas on the Eastern Caribbean – 17 ft. waves and 65 mph winds around St. Maarten, St. Thomas and San Juan, Puerto Rico.  That just tends to be a rough area.  It’s the real Atlantic Ocean, not the quiet Caribbean Sea. The Western Caribbean, on the other hand has more protected waters.  Much of the time the ship is south of Cuba, which acts like a HUGE wind and wave break.  The water tends to be ultra calm.  Much of the time all you will see is mild ripples of water.  No waves or white caps.  Even for the path down, the ship travels close to Florida in waters which are protected somewhat by the Bahamas.  And once south of Cuba it’s VERY calm. If you’re worried about seasickness, I’d strongly recommend the Western Caribbean.  Another consideration, we found the ultra huge Royal Caribbean Voyager class ships to be rather stable in the Western Caribbean.  The Celebrity ship Century, though now a bit older than the other ships you’re considering, was also very stable.  As were the Carnival Destiny class ships.  Some ships are just more stable than others.  We found Grand Princess to be rather un-stable.  Very prone to be blown around by winds, more so than waves.   Here sister ship Caribbean Princess is even higher (more subject to wind). My suggestion:  Western Caribbean, on Navigator of the Seas.  Ultra huge ship on an ultra calm itinerary. –Tom

Response:

Hi I want to go with my Daughter to the Eastern Caribbean Which Ship is best to go on?  She was seasick on the Golden Princess and Zeiderdam is a smaller ship But Caribbean Princess has 500 more people on it which would make it crowded for dining and shows We want to go in May 2005 and need help in deciding Thank you to all who respond   Barbara

Response:

> Hi I want to go with my Daughter to the Eastern Caribbean Which Ship is > best to go on?  She was seasick on the Golden Princess and Zeiderdam is > a smaller ship But Caribbean Princess has 500 more people on it which > would make it crowded for dining and shows We want to go in May 2005 and > need help in deciding Thank you to all who respond   Barbara

I’ll give you a whole different thing to consider. The Eastern Caribbean is all open water.  It’s the real Atlantic Ocean. Quite a bit of rough water.  Very prone to seasickness.  We’ve had some of the worst seas on the Eastern Caribbean – 17 ft. waves and 65 mph winds around St. Maarten, St. Thomas and San Juan, Puerto Rico.  That just tends to be a rough area.  It’s the real Atlantic Ocean, not the quiet Caribbean Sea. The Western Caribbean, on the other hand has more protected waters.  Much of the time the ship is south of Cuba, which acts like a HUGE wind and wave break.  The water tends to be ultra calm.  Much of the time all you will see is mild ripples of water.  No waves or white caps.  Even for the path down, the ship travels close to Florida in waters which are protected somewhat by the Bahamas.  And once south of Cuba it’s VERY calm. If you’re worried about seasickness, I’d strongly recommend the Western Caribbean.  Another consideration, we found the ultra huge Royal Caribbean Voyager class ships to be rather stable in the Western Caribbean.  The Celebrity ship Century, though now a bit older than the other ships you’re considering, was also very stable.  As were the Carnival Destiny class ships.  Some ships are just more stable than others.  We found Grand Princess to be rather un-stable.  Very prone to be blown around by winds, more so than waves.   Here sister ship Caribbean Princess is even higher (more subject to wind). My suggestion:  Western Caribbean, on Navigator of the Seas.  Ultra huge ship on an ultra calm itinerary. –Tom

Response:

We did Eastern Caribbean on Zuiderdam in Nov-Dec 2003. Fantastic ship, great experiences, top service, really nothing to complain about. Two of our dining mates had personal problems on St Martin (they were mugged-robbed) but other than that we have no ill feelings about any of the cruise. We did experience some rough seas, and our day on Half Moon Cay was cool, overcast and windy. St Martin offered the best prices for liquor, cameras and the like, and St Thomas was slightly higher but still better than Nassau. Speaking of Nassau… we did Atlantis and I love it!

Response:

Barbara, I’m cruising on the Zuiderdam in April. One of the reason’s I did not pick the Caribbean Princess was the passenger capcity. I really like Princess , but every complaint I read was about how crowded it was. I was told by my customers that Zuiderdam gives a smooth ride. I am also doing Eastern.   Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

ZEIDERDAM  / very nice == SPA is wonderful == new mattresses are perfect

Response:

Bon Voyage, Joyce.  I know you will have a ball. Tucker in Texas

Response:

What a trip!  This sounds wonderful!  Can’t wait to hear all about it when you return. Jo-Ann

Response:

Joyce, Have a wonderful Cruise. I can’t wait to hear about it when you return.   Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

Joyce: That is some trip…is Mom joining you? Bon Voyage! Eddie—> Its high summer in South America now! You should see the midnight sun in Antartica now!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In about 26 hours I leave for the airport. Off to Rio and meeting up > with the Amsterdam for a lovely 21 day cruise of South America and > Antarctica. > Try to be nice to eachother while I’m gone. > Joyce–> Flying down to Rio > — > "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." – The Talmud > "People demand the freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of > thought which > they avoid" – Kierkegaard > "Software without support is hardware" – JR/1999

Response:

In about 26 hours I leave for the airport. Off to Rio and meeting up with the Amsterdam for a lovely 21 day cruise of South America and Antarctica. Try to be nice to eachother while I’m gone. Joyce–> Flying down to Rio — "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." – The Talmud "People demand the freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid" – Kierkegaard "Software without support is hardware" – JR/1999

Response:

In about 26 hours I leave for the airport. Off to Rio and meeting up with the Amsterdam for a lovely 21 day cruise of South America and Antarctica. Try to be nice to eachother while I’m gone. Joyce–> Flying down to Rio — "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." – The Talmud "People demand the freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid" – Kierkegaard "Software without support is hardware" – JR/1999

Response:

Joyce: That is some trip…is Mom joining you? Bon Voyage! Eddie—> Its high summer in South America now! You should see the midnight sun in Antartica now!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In about 26 hours I leave for the airport. Off to Rio and meeting up > with the Amsterdam for a lovely 21 day cruise of South America and > Antarctica. > Try to be nice to eachother while I’m gone. > Joyce–> Flying down to Rio > — > "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." – The Talmud > "People demand the freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of > thought which > they avoid" – Kierkegaard > "Software without support is hardware" – JR/1999

Response:

Bon Voyage, Joyce.  I know you will have a ball. Tucker in Texas

Response:

What a trip!  This sounds wonderful!  Can’t wait to hear all about it when you return. Jo-Ann

Response:

Joyce, Have a wonderful Cruise. I can’t wait to hear about it when you return.   Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

> I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne.

I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the entire season. sue

Response:

BAYONNE! Do you actually have to go that rathole to get a cruise?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne.

Response:

> > I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne. > I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails > from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the > entire season. > sue

Horizon will be sailing from Norfolk, starting in May or June 2005 Ira J. Scheer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next >>summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from >>Bayonne. >I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails >from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the >entire season. >sue > Horizon will be sailing from Norfolk, starting in May or June 2005

Looks like it switches to Philly in July and stays there for the rest of the Bermuda season. sue

Response:

The Bermuda sailing will stay for Summer 2005. Zenith from Port Liberty, NJ and Horizon from Philly.   Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response:

I was doing some ‘homework’ planning to return to Bermuda in 2005. It seems like the Empress of the Seas will not be sailing to Bermuda from Bayonne next year? Rather the Voyager will be doing the run on a 5-night itinerary instead? I like the VOS and wouldn’t mind sailing her again, but much prefer the Nordic a.k.a. Empress OTS since she used to dock in Hamilton. Wondering why RCL has made this change? Len…

Response:

> I was doing some ‘homework’ planning to return to Bermuda in 2005. It > seems like the Empress of the Seas will not be sailing to Bermuda from > Bayonne next year? Rather the Voyager will be doing the run on a 5-night > itinerary instead? I like the VOS and wouldn’t mind sailing her again, > but much prefer the Nordic a.k.a. Empress OTS since she used to dock in > Hamilton. Wondering why RCL has made this change?

The problem with the VOS in Bermuda is that it can "only" dock at the   Dockyards. She is too big to be able to go to Hamilton or St Georges. Why not try the Zenith, she sails out of Bayonne now and goes to Hamilton and St. George. sue

Response:

I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from Bayonne.

Response:

I was doing some ‘homework’ planning to return to Bermuda in 2005. It seems like the Empress of the Seas will not be sailing to Bermuda from Bayonne next year? Rather the Voyager will be doing the run on a 5-night itinerary instead? I like the VOS and wouldn’t mind sailing her again, but much prefer the Nordic a.k.a. Empress OTS since she used to dock in Hamilton. Wondering why RCL has made this change? Len…

Response:

> I was doing some ‘homework’ planning to return to Bermuda in 2005. It > seems like the Empress of the Seas will not be sailing to Bermuda from > Bayonne next year? Rather the Voyager will be doing the run on a 5-night > itinerary instead? I like the VOS and wouldn’t mind sailing her again, > but much prefer the Nordic a.k.a. Empress OTS since she used to dock in > Hamilton. Wondering why RCL has made this change?

The problem with the VOS in Bermuda is that it can "only" dock at the   Dockyards. She is too big to be able to go to Hamilton or St Georges. Why not try the Zenith, she sails out of Bayonne now and goes to Hamilton and St. George. sue

Response:

I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from Bayonne.

Response:

> I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne.

I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the entire season. sue

Response:

BAYONNE! Do you actually have to go that rathole to get a cruise?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne.

Response:

> > I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next > summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from > Bayonne. > I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails > from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the > entire season. > sue

Horizon will be sailing from Norfolk, starting in May or June 2005 Ira J. Scheer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I believe Celebrity has the Horizon and Zenith sailing to Bermuda next >>summer…I think some sailings depart from Philadelphia and some from >>Bayonne. >I know that the Zenith sails from Bayonne and that the Horizon sails >from Philly. Just not sure if the Horizon stays in Philly for the >entire season. >sue > Horizon will be sailing from Norfolk, starting in May or June 2005

Looks like it switches to Philly in July and stays there for the rest of the Bermuda season. sue

Response:

The Bermuda sailing will stay for Summer 2005. Zenith from Port Liberty, NJ and Horizon from Philly.   Diane Giambalvo Travel Consultant GalaxSea Cruises And Tours East Brunswick, NJ 1-800-357-9393 http://www.galaxseaeb.com http://hometown.aol.com/iv18/myhomepage/business.html

Response: