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Email Addresses?
Question:
| Buying a Google ad for these terms is useless, for a very simple reason: | when people enter these search terms, they are not looking for your type | of service. As a result, they won’t pay any attention to it whatsoever. | | When you’re looking for a good Chinese restaurant to take friends to, are | you going to pay any attention to an ad from a manufacturer of restaurant | equipment? Or someone who sells fortune cookies wholesale? No, of course | not. You’ll completely ignore them because they are not what you are | looking for. | | So while these terms may be "related" to your business, they in no way | connect with that prospect’s mind set at that moment. Therefore, there | will be no connection with or interest in your ad. | | > Do you think a Google ad would be appropriate and might it work? | | No — for the above reasons. But just for good measure, I’ll give you one | more thing to consider: I use Google as my search engine of choice, but I | NEVER pay any attention to the paid ads — BECAUSE I know they are paid | ads. I know a lot of other users who do the same thing. | | In fact, I would say most knowledgeable users stay away from any search | engine that sells rankings (as many do now). When you’re looking for | info, do you want the info that someone has paid the most to have you | read or the info that best matches your search? Hi George, Well, it sounds like you are not in favor of any form of search engine advertising. Yet I know that it does work for some businesses. Perhaps not for a professional service or for key words not directly related to our service. I wonder. It is true that if a decision maker is looking for a "software engineer", he is not likely to be interested in a user interface designer or ergonomics engineer. But, it might be of interest to some because many software designers need help in user interface design. And, they might be the decision makers for our service. Do you have any suggestion for how you would let decision makers know that we are here? Thanks A Lot, Bob www.usernomics.com User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Folks, > I have a professional service and would like to contact product managers or > executives of companies. > I am not interested in bulk mailing / spam but would like to identify > relevant people and invite them to check us out if they need assistance. > This would be a quiet and personal email rather than any kind of bulk > mailing. > Does anyone have a good idea for how to identify executives and their email > address? > Thanks A Lot, > Bob > www.usernomics.com > User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Hello Bob, I suggest you read "The Power to Get In" by Michael A. Boylan, St. Martin’s Press, 1997. You should be able to find it at a discount in a used book store. The gist of the book is to connect with the organization and then zero in on your specific target. You can find often e-mail addresses in chamber of commerce directories. You can also get them by calling the company, asking for the name of the job title you are interested in and then asking for the e-mail address. Receptionists are often authorized to give out the e-mail address. A few suggestions. J.P. Solyom KS Business Development – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
> Hi George, > Do you have any suggestion for how you would let decision makers know that > we are here?
Bob, there is a pretty good book (I think) called Getting Sales to Come to You, by Paul and Sara Edwards. As far as online advertising is concerned, there is another post in this group titled "banner ad exchange", and what you are proposing sounds dangerously close to that. If you are paying by-the-click-through, the last thing you want is to key your banner ad to the word "computer" or something like that. I do encourage you to try banner ads, as it is not expensive and may work for you. Narrow down the search phrase, though. Otherwise, there are a hell of a lot of ways to market and sell. That is what making money is all about, and a lot of people do it. So look at people who are successful in the field in which you work, see what they do, try to do what they’ve been doing successfully and see if it will work for you. (I am not suggesting, of course, that one should copy another’s ads verbatim, etc. But if ABC is making big bucks and you see them doing print ads in The Town Flyer, take out an ad in that publication yourself and see where it goes. GOOD food for another thread, and by the way, I wouldn’t try print ads without some professional input on the ad itself, *BEYOND* the fact that The Town Flyer tells you that they think your ad is wonderful.) Mike
Response:
> I know I am going to get flamed for this opinion, but I think that > nearly every form of advertising is spam, thus, one form cannot be > condemned over another.
While many forms of advertising are uninvited (hence the challenge of getting it to work) there is in fact a very good reson why one form CAN be condemmed over others: simply that it doesn’t work! Whether this is logical or rational really doesn’t matter. The simple fact is that unsolicited e-mail will get you a lot of hate and very little sales, while other forms of advertising can be just the opposite. — George Demmer Reality Marketing Associates, Coquitlam, BC, Canada Phone: (604) 944-8603 Web site: www.realityassociates.com Everything your company does is marketing. We can help you do it better.
Response:
> Strictly speaking, if you’re sending out an unsolicited email to ceo’s > or key decision makers (or anybody else), unless it’s invited, it’s > spam. Even if you purchase a mailing list and send direct mail to > ceo’s and key decision makers, that still is spam of direct mail. (By > today’s definitions.)
While that may be technically true, unsolicited snail mail is still much more acceptable to people. Probably because people are so used to it. The militancy against spam e-mail is much greater. > A way around this would be to find a newsletter that targets your > demographic. > Or find an good quality optin email list.
Have you ever actually come across this mythical creature in the real world, Monty? I simply laugh at the masses of spam I receive that start out with "you have chosen to receive this…" when they are using e-mail addresses that I NEVER use for such a purpose (like addresses I use in newsgroups only, or ones I have coded so I know exactly where the person got it). Yet they all insist these are opt-in lists. It seems to me that any GOOD opt-in list would, by definition, not be offered for sale. Hence my advice elsewhere in this thread to build your own. — George Demmer Reality Marketing Associates, Coquitlam, BC, Canada Phone: (604) 944-8603 Web site: www.realityassociates.com Everything your company does is marketing. We can help you do it better.
Response:
> Well, how about a different strategy? What would you think of Google > PPC ads for a > service like mine? > My site rates very well in google on the key technical terms but many > people use my site as a professional resource and are already in my > business.
That suggests to me that you need to educate your target market about what you do and why they should care. At the moment, they don’t know enough to be looking for you. The fact that people in your business do find you readily tells me that if your prospects were actually looking for your service, they would find it too. > With an ad, I could get it on searches for words that CEO’s > and decision makers are likely to search. For example, I show well > when searching for "Human Factors" but don’t show up at all for things > like "engineering consultant" or "computer consultant".
Buying a Google ad for these terms is useless, for a very simple reason: when people enter these search terms, they are not looking for your type of service. As a result, they won’t pay any attention to it whatsoever. When you’re looking for a good Chinese restaurant to take friends to, are you going to pay any attention to an ad from a manufacturer of restaurant equipment? Or someone who sells fortune cookies wholesale? No, of course not. You’ll completely ignore them because they are not what you are looking for. So while these terms may be "related" to your business, they in no way connect with that prospect’s mind set at that moment. Therefore, there will be no connection with or interest in your ad. > Do you think a Google ad would be appropriate and might it work?
No — for the above reasons. But just for good measure, I’ll give you one more thing to consider: I use Google as my search engine of choice, but I NEVER pay any attention to the paid ads — BECAUSE I know they are paid ads. I know a lot of other users who do the same thing. In fact, I would say most knowledgeable users stay away from any search engine that sells rankings (as many do now). When you’re looking for info, do you want the info that someone has paid the most to have you read or the info that best matches your search? — George Demmer Reality Marketing Associates, Coquitlam, BC, Canada Phone: (604) 944-8603 Web site: www.realityassociates.com Everything your company does is marketing. We can help you do it better.
Response:
| I firmly disagree on not emailing perspective clients! If you visit their | site and add a few details from it in your message. No rational business | person should accuse you of Spam!!! | | I reviewed your site it well organized and graphically well done. After | reviewing it I understand why you are sales and/or lead impaired. You main | headder on the index page reads "Thank you for visiting our updated site." | You badly need to team with someone who understands web marketing. Your | site can provide leads and sales with minor revisions!!! | | Likely your best marketing method would be writing articles for appropiate | Ezines. This has the potential to bring in highly targeted clientel. Hi Ken, Thanks for the comments. I will fix that lead line right away. I do rank in the top 10 on Google for my main key words. However, I get a lot of academics using the site. My objective is to try and reach corporate decision makers. In another post, I talk about using a Google Ad to reach people on different keywords that decision makers might search on but where I do not show up at all. For example: engineering consultant or software consultant. While we do not specialize in these areas, folks looking for such help might be interested in our services. I plan to tweak the pages, try a Google ad, and perhaps try a some very specific email. Do you think this will work? Thanks A Lot, Bob www.usernomics.com User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Response:
| | But isn’t every kind of advertising spam? When I turn on the T.V. I | don’t ask to see advertisments they are just there. As well when I | read a magazine or listen to the radio, there are advertisements there | that I do not want to look at. | | I know I am going to get flamed for this opinion, but I think that | nearly every form of advertising is spam, thus, one form cannot be | condemned over another. Hi Daniel, I understand what you are saying. However, I always think of email with my correct address and name to be worth looking at. My spam filter removes any list addresses, html, and email containing several key words. So I see very little traditional spam. I guess I feel that if it is directed to the individual, mentions his company, and is not html it borders on spam but is acceptable to most people. Bob www.usernomics.com User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Response:
| Hi Bob, | | I would ask how many other sites are advertising with google adwords. | If there are three or less you’ll get visibility on the top of the | page. Otherwise you’ll be buried. As I mentioned on another post I | believe they’re only pay per views. | | What are your keywords? | | If they’re specialized keywords that would only be used by CEO’s | obviously that would help. | | Have you checked out overture.com. There are some keywords that I saw | people bidding $50.00 per click. The keywords are only words that you | would know if you had a high level medical specialist write down for | you. So obviously their prospects are going to be interested in their | service. | | Finally, I would optimize your page to get higher in the search | engines, (if not already). I have number two position on google for | my main keyword. I don’t have to buy google adwords for that keyword. Hi Monty, Thanks for the tips. I will check out overture right away. My keywords result in very few paid ads and they really don’t compete with me. For example, "ergonomics" results in only two ads and they are for ergonomic furniture while we offer hardware and software design. We work on projects that make products more usable (user friendly) and we do usability testing. Even on a more popular search for "engineering consultant", there are about 6-7 ads but none for ergonomic engineering. I think I could get some decision makers to look at us by using keywords where we would not normally appear. My page is optimized pretty well except for my opening line which I need to change. I do appear in the top 10 for my main key words: ergonomics, human factors, instructional design, etc. I need overture for sure. Thanks again Monty, Bob www.usernomics.com User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Response:
Don’t do it. No matter how you write it, it will look like spam. Write them a letter. [ Note to moderator elided. -JimL ]
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Folks, > I have a professional service and would like to contact product managers or > executives of companies. > I am not interested in bulk mailing / spam but would like to identify > relevant people and invite them to check us out if they need assistance. > This would be a quiet and personal email rather than any kind of bulk > mailing. > Does anyone have a good idea for how to identify executives and their email > address? > Thanks A Lot, > Bob > www.usernomics.com > User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Response:
Hi Monty, Thanks for the advice. I guess directed email is analogous to an unsolicited phone call. I must say that we have done the phone calls with success in the past. On a slightly different topic, what would you think of Google PPC ads for a service like mine? My site rates very well in google on the key technical terms but many people use my site as a professional resource and are already in my business. With an ad, I could get it on searches for words that CEO’s and decision makers are likely to search. For example, I show well when searching for "Human Factors" but don’t show up at all for things like "engineering consultant" or "computer consultant". While we are not specialists in these two areas, people looking for this kind of help might be interested in our related services (ergonomic design of hardware and software). Do you think a Google ad would be appropriate and might it work? — Thanks A Lot, Bob www.usernomics.com User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
| | Strictly speaking, if you’re sending out an unsolicited email to ceo’s | or key decision makers (or anybody else), unless it’s invited, it’s | spam. Even if you purchase a mailing list and send direct mail to | ceo’s and key decision makers, that still is spam of direct mail. (By | today’s definitions.) | | A way around this would be to find a newsletter that targets your | demographic. | Or find an good quality optin email list. | | We’re in the business of direct marketing. We’re always trying to | find that ‘good’ list. Many times it comes down to just a lot of hard | work and luck. | | Monty Loree | HomeGrown Advertising Inc | www.express-advertising.com
Response:
Hi Everyone, Thanks for all the valuable tips. I think you have convinced me to not email anything to anyone. Ergonomic Marketing is a term that I coined. It refers to designing hardware and software (including screens) to be easy to use, easy to learn, and be aesthetically pleasing. The discipline is called ergonomics, ergonomic engineering, human factors, and/or cognitive psychology. The term refers to the use of these tools to make the product more acceptable to the user and more marketable as a result. Well, how about a different strategy? What would you think of Google PPC ads for a service like mine? My site rates very well in google on the key technical terms but many people use my site as a professional resource and are already in my business. With an ad, I could get it on searches for words that CEO’s and decision makers are likely to search. For example, I show well when searching for "Human Factors" but don’t show up at all for things like "engineering consultant" or "computer consultant". While we are not specialists in these two areas, people looking for this kind of help might be interested in our related services (ergonomic design of hardware and software). Do you think a Google ad would be appropriate and might it work? — Thanks A Lot, Bob www.usernomics.com User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Response:
| Are you saying something is wrong with their products the way that they are? | Are you saying that you can do a better job at "Ergo Mktg." than them? | | Why not mention specific issues with their existing products, or better yet, | tell them how and why your services will either increase the number of sales | that they make, or increase the value of their product, etc? | | I am not a marketing expert, I just know enough to get by on my own. FWIS, | these are just a few off-the-cuff comments. | | Mike | Hi Mike, Points well taken. Thanks for the critique. I agree with every point you made. The problem is how to implement your comments. If email of any kind is inappropriate, how would you go about reaching the decision makers? In my post below, I ask about Google PPC advertisements. That might get me to some decision makers who would not normally search for my key words. Do you have any ideas on reaching decision makers to let them know we are available? Thanks again Mike, Bob
Response:
But isn’t every kind of advertising spam? When I turn on the T.V. I don’t ask to see advertisments they are just there. As well when I read a magazine or listen to the radio, there are advertisements there that I do not want to look at. I know I am going to get flamed for this opinion, but I think that nearly every form of advertising is spam, thus, one form cannot be condemned over another.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Don’t do it. No matter how you write it, it will look like spam. Write them > a letter. > [ Note to moderator elided. -JimL ] > Hi Folks, > I have a professional service and would like to contact product managers > or > executives of companies. > I am not interested in bulk mailing / spam but would like to identify > relevant people and invite them to check us out if they need assistance. > This would be a quiet and personal email rather than any kind of bulk > mailing. > Does anyone have a good idea for how to identify executives and their > email > address? > Thanks A Lot, > Bob > www.usernomics.com > User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Response:
Thanks for all the valuable tips. I think you have convinced me to not email anything to anyone. Bob, I firmly disagree on not emailing perspective clients! If you visit their site and add a few details from it in your message. No rational business person should accuse you of Spam!!! I reviewed your site it well organized and graphically well done. After reviewing it I understand why you are sales and/or lead impaired. You main headder on the index page reads "Thank you for visiting our updated site." You badly need to team with someone who understands web marketing. Your site can provide leads and sales with minor revisions!!! Likely your best marketing method would be writing articles for appropiate Ezines. This has the potential to bring in highly targeted clientel. Success, Ken
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Monty, > My site rates very well in google on the key technical terms but many people > use my site as a professional resource and are already in my business. With > an ad, I could get it on searches for words that CEO’s and decision makers > are likely to search. For example, I show well when searching for "Human > Factors" but don’t show up at all for things like "engineering consultant" > or "computer consultant". While we are not specialists in these two areas, > people looking for this kind of help might be interested in our related > services (ergonomic design of hardware and software). > Do you think a Google ad would be appropriate and might it work? > — > Thanks A Lot, > Bob > www.usernomics.com > User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Hi Bob, I would ask how many other sites are advertising with google adwords. If there are three or less you’ll get visibility on the top of the page. Otherwise you’ll be buried. As I mentioned on another post I believe they’re only pay per views. What are your keywords? If they’re specialized keywords that would only be used by CEO’s obviously that would help. Have you checked out overture.com. There are some keywords that I saw people bidding $50.00 per click. The keywords are only words that you would know if you had a high level medical specialist write down for you. So obviously their prospects are going to be interested in their service. Finally, I would optimize your page to get higher in the search engines, (if not already). I have number two position on google for my main keyword. I don’t have to buy google adwords for that keyword. Monty Loree HomeGrown Advertising Inc Direct Mail, Optin Email, Fax Broadcasting www.express-advertising.com
Response:
> Let me ask you if the following type of email would still be considered > spam? I thought that if I knew the person’s email, sent one at a time to the > individual, and sent it in plain text, that it would be OK.
The issue (and the problem) is really unsolicited commercial email–to the recipient, it doesn’t really matter (nor do they notice) if they are the only one received it or if they are one of 10,000,000 who received it. To them, personally, the issue is that this "thing" appeared in their email box. As someone who owns a small business, and who has a number of clients who are executives or upper level managers in larger entities, the real problem is that both I and those clients tend to find a *lot* of people want to communicate with us to sell us some product or service. In general, I suspect your target audience is going to mainly ignore you if they see you as "yet another" person trying to get their ear and sell them something. And, frankly, that’s what your email is going to do. My own take would be that you need to stand out in some way so that your target approaches you–because, at least for me, that’s when I’m most likely going to buy. As others have suggested, they may approach you because you got information to them that was *not* a sales pitch (or at least not perceived as such).
Response:
> Let me ask you if the following type of email would still be considered > spam? I thought that if I knew the person’s email, sent one at a time to the > individual, and sent it in plain text, that it would be OK. > I fear that I know your answer. Darn.
Bob, If Mr. Smith didn’t give you his email address and ask you to send him this specific kind of information, it is spam. If Mr. Smith opted-in to a mailing list on your page and requested marketing literature, this would not be spam. This is the only criteria of what is or is not spam (within the context of marketing by email). There are other ways, of course, to find clients. Do you have a backup plan? If so, what is it? If not, you might think this through a little bit and possibly start a new thread. Also, the content of the email was not that hot. All other factors set aside, from the perspective of a recipient, it didn’t give me that "I better pick up the phone right now" kind of feeling. > I know that Prognosis is working on a variety of products that requires an > excellent user interface in order to make the product easy to use and > marketable.
You’ve identified a need. ("that require"! Watch the grammar.) > I also know that you have in-house capability but thought that > you might need some outside assistance.
So, "I know you can do this, but gee, if you need any help, give me a call." It just isn’t very strong. > We specialize in "Ergonomic Marketing" which refers to preparing products > for market through usable product design.
Did you coin the phrase "Ergonomic Marketing"? It sounds more like you do user-friendly screen layouts. How about, "We increase the perceived value of your product by making it more attractive and easier to use." (Or something like that.) > We are recognized leaders in the > field of user interface design and have worked with hardware and software > engineers in several major companies.
This is very generic. I’m sure there is more info on your web page (which I haven’t looked at). But there is nothing here that makes me want to click the links (again, I am trying to look at this from the perspective of a "recipient"). Since you know what this company is doing, throw out some specifics. Even if you DON’T know what they are doing (shame on you), you STILL need to provide specific information. > If we can be of service to you, please contact me to discuss ways and means > of enhancing your products.
Are you saying something is wrong with their products the way that they are? Are you saying that you can do a better job at "Ergo Mktg." than them? Why not mention specific issues with their existing products, or better yet, tell them how and why your services will either increase the number of sales that they make, or increase the value of their product, etc? I am not a marketing expert, I just know enough to get by on my own. FWIS, these are just a few off-the-cuff comments. Mike
Response:
Hi Folks, I have a professional service and would like to contact product managers or executives of companies. I am not interested in bulk mailing / spam but would like to identify relevant people and invite them to check us out if they need assistance. This would be a quiet and personal email rather than any kind of bulk mailing. Does anyone have a good idea for how to identify executives and their email address? Thanks A Lot, Bob www.usernomics.com User Interface Design, Human Factors, Ergonomics, Training & Documentation
Response:
> I am not interested in bulk mailing / spam but would like to identify > relevant people and invite them to check us out if they need assistance.
That is called spam. Your egocentric perspective (nothing personal) is keeping you from seeing this for what it is. Don’t do it! It will do much more harm to your business than it could ever do good. Mike
Response:
> Hi Folks,
Hi Bob: > I have a professional service and would like to contact product > managers or executives of companies. > I am not interested in bulk mailing / spam but would like to identify > relevant people and invite them to check us out if they need > assistance. This would be a quiet and personal email rather than any > kind of bulk mailing.
As Mike has pointed out, this would still be considered spam. > Does anyone have a good idea for how to identify executives and their > email address?
There is only one way to do this and to produce a good e-mail campaign: get people to GIVE you their e-mail address and request your information. This is now being referred to as "permission marketing" (Seth Godin has written a book by that name — it’s worth checking out). It used to be called two-step marketing: step one is running advertising (or use some other form of contact like trade shows) that gets them to request your material (because it promises to offer a solution to their problem or to give them information they want); step two is sending them your material which a) delivers what you promised in step one and b) convinces them to take further action toward buying your product. In a nutshell, this approach has two big advantages: one, if you do it right, it gets you VERY qualified leads and two, it can reduce the total cost of your advertising because getting them to request your free information can often be accomplished by smaller, cheaper ads than getting them to make a greater commitment (like calling for an appointment). — George Demmer Reality Marketing Associates, Coquitlam, BC, Canada Phone: (604) 944-8603 Web site: www.realityassociates.com Everything your company does is marketing. We can help you do it better.
Response:
Strictly speaking, if you’re sending out an unsolicited email to ceo’s or key decision makers (or anybody else), unless it’s invited, it’s spam. Even if you purchase a mailing list and send direct mail to ceo’s and key decision makers, that still is spam of direct mail. (By today’s definitions.) A way around this would be to find a newsletter that targets your demographic. Or find an good quality optin email list. We’re in the business of direct marketing. We’re always trying to find that ‘good’ list. Many times it comes down to just a lot of hard work and luck. Monty Loree HomeGrown Advertising Inc www.express-advertising.com
Response:
Hi Mike and George, Thanks for the reply. I see what you mean and certainly do not want to send spam. Let me ask you if the following type of email would still be considered spam? I thought that if I knew the person’s email, sent one at a time to the individual, and sent it in plain text, that it would be OK. I fear that I know your answer. Darn. Bob _______ Dear Mr. Smith, I know that Prognosis is working on a variety of products that requires an excellent user interface in order to make the product easy to use and marketable. I also know that you have in-house capability but thought that you might need some outside assistance. We specialize in "Ergonomic Marketing" which refers to preparing products for market through usable product design. We are recognized leaders in the field of user interface design and have worked with hardware and software engineers in several major companies. We would be happy to assist you on any of your current products in the areas of: User Interface Design Usability Testing Human Factors Workplace Ergonomics Documentation & Training You can check us out at www.usernomics.com and www.interface-analysis.com . If we can be of service to you, please contact me to discuss ways and means of enhancing your products.