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Delta shafting TA's (OT)
Question:
Hi Paul Thanks for the response. Nope not a Travel Agent I am an early retiree; part time "devils advocate" Regards 
Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Ray, > More Travel Agent BS. We’ve heard all the scare tactics before. How prices > will rise! How we’ll all be victimized by the unscrupulous Cruise Lines > unless the our Travel Agents save us! > The truth is it will be no different that any other travel industry. No > single company will control the market just like no one company controls the > airline industry or the hotel industry or the rental car industry. > When they went direct, what has happened was that they didn’t have to pay > commissions and saved money. As a result of competition, they passed on > some of the commission savings directly to the consumer. Air fares, hotel > rooms and rental cars are substantially lower if booked on-line. > Nothing forces anyone to book an airline ticket or hotel room > electronically. Just like no one forces you to pump your own gas. You can > still get full service, but you’re going to pay more. > Tell me Ray, what’s wrong with pumping your own gas or buying your own > cruise and paying less – nothing unless, of course your a Travel Agent. > Paul > There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more > and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. > will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what > have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray
Response:
Jeff, You are correct. Swissair is back — at least temporarily. They were shut down after 9/11 but bailed out by the Swiss government as they are the country’s national airline. Like Amtrak, they’re now heavily subsidized and cutting corners to reduce cost. They’ve begun reducing fares to attract more passengers but as a result of lower tariffs, they are also reducing quality and service (something Swissair was know for). Bottom line is the new Swissair ain’t like the old Swissair. They now nickle and dime you for things that you took for granted and part of the package (you now pay for beverages in some classes). Hell, I expect Art Auctions next. Sounds just like the cruise industry doesn’t it. Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Paul- > Swissair is still there. At least their website is. > jeff
Response:
> Really….. Used to travel a lot to Singer Link Systems up in Silver > Springs when I was with GE many years ago. They built a huge > simulator for us and I was the Purchasing Type. Lots of really boring > meetings as I remember.
You might have met him. I had a few friends that worked there. I was over in that area the other day getting my vehicle emissions test. The test place is on the same street. He is going to have a cow though because you said "Silver Springs" instead of the correct "Silver Spring". When Lee Lindquist did that a few years ago Slinski almost had a stroke online. — Charles
Response:
>You might have met him. I had a few friends that worked there. I was >over in that area the other day getting my vehicle emissions test. The >test place is on the same street. He is going to have a cow though >because you said "Silver Springs" instead of the correct "Silver >Spring". When Lee Lindquist did that a few years ago Slinski almost had >a stroke online.
You are correct, the name of the city is "Silver Spring" cause there was only one Spring originally I guess. We made so many trips there though and stayed in so many hotels and motels that we internally called it "Silver Springs" because of all the bad beds we slept in……. Cal Ford Lido Deck Cruises
Response:
Paul- Swissair is still there. At least their website is. jeff
Response:
Sheree, I have a great idea. You do all the work, book the cruise direct, and then transfer the booking to me! I can do nothing and collect a commission just as well as your Travel Agent. In fact if you do that, I promise to send one of those cheap bottles of champagne and a card to your cabin just like a Travel Agent. What do ya think Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> now sure what Paul was talking about, but right now I can book direct with > any cruise line, then transfer it to a TA and save money. So what if the > cruise lines are paying the TA a commission, it’s not like they’re giving it > to me when I book direct. I might as well have someone with some clout > dealing with the cruiselines. > — > Sheree > There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more > and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. > will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what > have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray
Response:
Interesting about NJ and gas. We just drove home through NJ last night — filled up at the Joyce Kilmer rest stop on GSP. Cost per gallon was 5 cents more than in PA, MD, NY, and MA stations along the freeways. And for this extra price we had the pleasure of having to wait 5 minutes while one of several bored-looking attendants looked at our car pulling up to the pump and debating over which of them was going to pump the gas. When the gas was done pumping, the attendant was nowhere to be seen (no other customers around either). He finally showed up when we got out of the car and started to remove the nozzle from our own tank. What should have taken a few minutes to put $12.00 worth of gas in our car took nearly 15. If this is an improvement, I’ll continue to pump my own. And, incidentally, we have pumped our own gas in NJ — just not allowed to, apparently, at this particular rest stop. Back on-topic, however, I hate to see good TAs being squeezed out of business by this continuous attitude from the people in the airline industry. On the cruises we’ve taken, I’ve done a lot of my homework ahead of time on line in terms of prices, itineraries, etc., and then have worked closely with the TA to "customize" what we want out of our trip. Unfortunately, our favorite TA has left the business, and the office where she used to work has informed us they will only be dealing with corporate clients from here on out. CCPetersen
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> here in nj we don’t pump our own gas and have some of the lowest gas prices > in the country!! > Don’t think I’d want to pump my own and pay more like in other states > — > Sheree
Response:
are you a licensed ta?! Actually a good TA does a lot, when there’s problems there’s someone to intervene, they’ll be able to get lower pricing when it’s availalbe (try getting the cruiseline to do that!), they act as your advocate etc etc So if I can save money by transferring the booking to the TA (and many of us do that), and have them as an advocate, why would I want to pay more and book direct? — Sheree
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sheree, > I have a great idea. > You do all the work, book the cruise direct, and then transfer the booking > to me! I can do nothing and collect a commission just as well as your > Travel Agent. > In fact if you do that, I promise to send one of those cheap bottles of > champagne and a card to your cabin just like a Travel Agent. > What do ya think > Paul > now sure what Paul was talking about, but right now I can book direct with > any cruise line, then transfer it to a TA and save money. So what if the > cruise lines are paying the TA a commission, it’s not like they’re giving > it > to me when I book direct. I might as well have someone with some clout > dealing with the cruiselines. > — > Sheree > > There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more > and > > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. > My > > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. > will > > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what > have > > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > > Regards > > Ray
Response:
Ernie, It’s not sad, that businesses that can not compete go under, it’s what this country is all about. Find a better way, grow your business, find a nitch market, or you’re out of business. It’s happened to large businesses (Montgomery Wards, Pan Am) as well as small businesses. In fact small business is thriving (the % of the U.S. workforce employed by business is increasing), especially in the service industry, but they’re doing it with innovation and hard work. The ma and pa Travel Agents (and other businesses) deserve to go out of business if they did nothing to remain competitive. As for booking automation of the Cruise Industry, you’re correct they are working on it but it has a way to go. Once the big three (Carnival, Princes, RCCL) jointly develop a booking engine like the airlines did (Orbitz) the better off we’ll be. They we can realistically compare the cost and benefits of direct booking vs. the use of Travel Agents. We can’t do that now because Travel Agents do not disclose their fee. Paul We’ve heard it before, when Wal Mart or Home Dept comes to town then the mom and pop stores are , offer something
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you still work for an airline? <vbg> > I do, but I’ve in the travel industry long before my airline experience. > I’m not defending the airlines, but stating this new business culture has > been around for some time. Commission caps were the first step, and any > smart agents should have been taking active steps to realign their business > at that point. As I stated, I can’t say how many agents were so appalled > when caps were introduced that they stated "why pay commissions at all?". > Guess what, their question has been answered. > I believe it’s only a matter of time before tour operators and cruise lines > follow in the steps of airlines, hotels and car rentals companies with > direct online bookings. Cruise lines have already developed expensive > software to allow direct bookings online from their websites. I’m sure they > look at this as a great undeveloped revenue potential regardless of what > they say publicly. As computers become as much of a household item as TV’s, > and users become more savvy, the online booking trend will only accelerate. > The sad losers in this business will be the smaller ma and pa travel > agencies. Large conglomerate agencies and consortiums are for the most part > unaffected, as they have their commissions for airlines and tour operators > protected and set in a contract. As stated by someone earlier, America is > becoming a country where the small business can no longer survive. It will > either be eaten up by someone larger, or forced to go out of business all > together. This is now a country of mega-plex movies theaters and > Wal-Mart’s, not the corner store and local movie house. Is this a good > thing? I’ll let you be the judge. > Ernie Roller, > Atlanta, GA
Response:
Didn’t someone once say that he has a Used Car Lot. Talk about making a lot of Cal Ford Lido Deck Cruises – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You need to stop holding back Paul and say what you really think. Out of >curiosity, what is your profession? >– >Charlie Funk >Just Cruisin’ Plus >800 888-0922 >615 833-0922 >www.justcruisinplus.com >We prefer the MasterCard card > HI Mike, > What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to >disclose > their fees — something they hate to do. > You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher > price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the > Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. > To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told > how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to >the > Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car > rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this > happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions > and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. > Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. > Paul > P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? > internet booking > > Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > > commission.
Response:
> Didn’t someone once say that he has a Used Car Lot. Talk about making a lot of
I think that was some other troll. Paul the troll never recovered from the failure of Singer Link which was an aerospace company. He lost his mind after that went under. — Charles
Response:
Really….. Used to travel a lot to Singer Link Systems up in Silver Springs when I was with GE many years ago. They built a huge simulator for us and I was the Purchasing Type. Lots of really boring meetings as I remember. Cal Ford Lido Deck Cruises – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Didn’t someone once say that he has a Used Car Lot. Talk about making a lot of >I think that was some other troll. Paul the troll never recovered from >the failure of Singer Link which was an aerospace company. He lost his >mind after that went under. >– >Charles
Response:
I agree with Ernie on this one. I usually fly Delta only and always book on line. It’s quick, easy and I get an extra 1000 sky miles for doing this. As Ernie stated, any TA that did not seen this coming and make changes in their business should close their doors anyway. Gordon
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission. > Mike, > You failed to mention the commission caps which have been in place for some > time, and if fact negated the 5% in most cases. > I recall reading how the world was coming to an end when airlines > implemented the commission cap. Many travel agents said they were insulted, > that they would no longer do business with the airlines, that the airlines > should not even bother with a commission if they were going to cap them. > Well, I guess they got their wish. > Basically, if any travel agent has not seen this coming for some time now, I > have to question how "informed" they are in their business profession. It’s > been years since airlines have done anything except tolerate travel agents. > I’m not stating whether this is right or wrong, but it has been a fact of > life. The good travel agents have moved on, concentrating on the business > that does pay commission (basically bundled packages like cruises, tours, > etc.). Unfortunately, even this type of travel can be booked directly, and > many of these operators are discovering the benefits of bypassing the agent > distribution system. It will be many many years before the internet becomes > the predominate booking method for cruises and so forth, but we are seeing > the first signs. As this method of booking becomes more popular, we can > expect cruise and tour operators to begin taking the same steps as the > airlines. > People, you can make the airlines out to be the bad guys all you want. The > fact is, the internet is what has changed the distribution system of this > business. Airlines don’t want, or expect everyone to call their > reservations staff to make a reservation. They want you to go online to > their website and book the tickets via the web. They give you several > incentives to do just that, and based on booking revenue for Delta, people > are listening. From a strictly business perspective, eliminating > commissions in the US based on the current booking environment makes sense. > Why pay someone if you don’t have to? Most travel agents have long since > given up on promoting the airlines anyway (with good reason), so why should > they be paid commission? Frankly, if I were an agent I would have found > another niche by now. Most have, and I would imagine that is why we have so > many cruise only agencies these days. Sure they will book the air, but only > if you purchase it through the cruise lines. Personally, it has been many > years since I even considered calling a travel agent to book strictly an air > ticket (or hotel and car rental for that matter). It’s just to easy to go > online and do it myself. I would think most people with a computer feel the > same way. > Ernie Roller, > Atlanta, GA
Response:
> Do you still work for an airline? <vbg>
I do, but I’ve in the travel industry long before my airline experience. I’m not defending the airlines, but stating this new business culture has been around for some time. Commission caps were the first step, and any smart agents should have been taking active steps to realign their business at that point. As I stated, I can’t say how many agents were so appalled when caps were introduced that they stated "why pay commissions at all?". Guess what, their question has been answered. I believe it’s only a matter of time before tour operators and cruise lines follow in the steps of airlines, hotels and car rentals companies with direct online bookings. Cruise lines have already developed expensive software to allow direct bookings online from their websites. I’m sure they look at this as a great undeveloped revenue potential regardless of what they say publicly. As computers become as much of a household item as TV’s, and users become more savvy, the online booking trend will only accelerate. The sad losers in this business will be the smaller ma and pa travel agencies. Large conglomerate agencies and consortiums are for the most part unaffected, as they have their commissions for airlines and tour operators protected and set in a contract. As stated by someone earlier, America is becoming a country where the small business can no longer survive. It will either be eaten up by someone larger, or forced to go out of business all together. This is now a country of mega-plex movies theaters and Wal-Mart’s, not the corner store and local movie house. Is this a good thing? I’ll let you be the judge. Ernie Roller, Atlanta, GA
Response:
Hi Ray, More Travel Agent BS. We’ve heard all the scare tactics before. How prices will rise! How we’ll all be victimized by the unscrupulous Cruise Lines unless the our Travel Agents save us! The truth is it will be no different that any other travel industry. No single company will control the market just like no one company controls the airline industry or the hotel industry or the rental car industry. When they went direct, what has happened was that they didn’t have to pay commissions and saved money. As a result of competition, they passed on some of the commission savings directly to the consumer. Air fares, hotel rooms and rental cars are substantially lower if booked on-line. Nothing forces anyone to book an airline ticket or hotel room electronically. Just like no one forces you to pump your own gas. You can still get full service, but you’re going to pay more. Tell me Ray, what’s wrong with pumping your own gas or buying your own cruise and paying less – nothing unless, of course your a Travel Agent. Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray
Response:
now sure what Paul was talking about, but right now I can book direct with any cruise line, then transfer it to a TA and save money. So what if the cruise lines are paying the TA a commission, it’s not like they’re giving it to me when I book direct. I might as well have someone with some clout dealing with the cruiselines. — Sheree
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray
Response:
> Personally, it has been many >years since I even considered calling a travel agent to book strictly an air >ticket (or hotel and car rental for that matter). It’s just to easy to go >online and do it myself.
Hi Ernie, Do you still work for an airline? <vbg> Best regards, Ray LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 http://www.lighthousetravel.com
Response:
here in nj we don’t pump our own gas and have some of the lowest gas prices in the country!! Don’t think I’d want to pump my own and pay more like in other states — Sheree
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Ray, > More Travel Agent BS. We’ve heard all the scare tactics before. How prices > will rise! How we’ll all be victimized by the unscrupulous Cruise Lines > unless the our Travel Agents save us! > The truth is it will be no different that any other travel industry. No > single company will control the market just like no one company controls the > airline industry or the hotel industry or the rental car industry. > When they went direct, what has happened was that they didn’t have to pay > commissions and saved money. As a result of competition, they passed on > some of the commission savings directly to the consumer. Air fares, hotel > rooms and rental cars are substantially lower if booked on-line. > Nothing forces anyone to book an airline ticket or hotel room > electronically. Just like no one forces you to pump your own gas. You can > still get full service, but you’re going to pay more. > Tell me Ray, what’s wrong with pumping your own gas or buying your own > cruise and paying less – nothing unless, of course your a Travel Agent. > Paul > There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more > and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. > will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what > have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray
Response:
Charlie, I’m a part time consultant but mostly retired. I’ve been traveling for over 30 years on business and pleasure. I cruise about once every 3 months. Mostly small ships high on service and quality like Seabourn, Windstar or Radisson. I liked Renaissance too, but you know that story. Once in awhile I’ll go mainstream (Holland America is about the best, but to tell the truth their ain’t much difference among the mainstream cruise lines — their food, service and incessant scams no longer make it a pleasant experience). To me traveling on any mainstream cruise line is like traveling coach on any U.S. air carrier. The colors of the ships and planes and the uniforms the crew wear may be a little different, but they’re all overcrowded and the service and food sucks. All my favorites seem to have disappeared (Royal Viking Line, Norwegian American Line, Pan Am Airways, Swissair). But that’s progress, people now want cheap instead of quality. If the price is low enough, then it must be O.K. regardless of how bad the product or service. I guess that’s why Carnival is the biggest cruise line and McDonald’s is the biggest restaurant chain. Good luck in the travel industry Charlie — you’re gonna need it Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You need to stop holding back Paul and say what you really think. Out of > curiosity, what is your profession? > — > Charlie Funk > Just Cruisin’ Plus > 800 888-0922 > 615 833-0922 > www.justcruisinplus.com > We prefer the MasterCard card > HI Mike, > What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to > disclose > their fees — something they hate to do. > You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher > price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the > Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. > To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told > how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to > the > Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car > rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this > happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions > and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. > Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. > Paul > P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? > internet booking > > Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > > commission.
Response:
There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more and more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. will promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what have we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. Regards Ray
Response:
> Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission.
Mike, You failed to mention the commission caps which have been in place for some time, and if fact negated the 5% in most cases. I recall reading how the world was coming to an end when airlines implemented the commission cap. Many travel agents said they were insulted, that they would no longer do business with the airlines, that the airlines should not even bother with a commission if they were going to cap them. Well, I guess they got their wish. Basically, if any travel agent has not seen this coming for some time now, I have to question how "informed" they are in their business profession. It’s been years since airlines have done anything except tolerate travel agents. I’m not stating whether this is right or wrong, but it has been a fact of life. The good travel agents have moved on, concentrating on the business that does pay commission (basically bundled packages like cruises, tours, etc.). Unfortunately, even this type of travel can be booked directly, and many of these operators are discovering the benefits of bypassing the agent distribution system. It will be many many years before the internet becomes the predominate booking method for cruises and so forth, but we are seeing the first signs. As this method of booking becomes more popular, we can expect cruise and tour operators to begin taking the same steps as the airlines. People, you can make the airlines out to be the bad guys all you want. The fact is, the internet is what has changed the distribution system of this business. Airlines don’t want, or expect everyone to call their reservations staff to make a reservation. They want you to go online to their website and book the tickets via the web. They give you several incentives to do just that, and based on booking revenue for Delta, people are listening. From a strictly business perspective, eliminating commissions in the US based on the current booking environment makes sense. Why pay someone if you don’t have to? Most travel agents have long since given up on promoting the airlines anyway (with good reason), so why should they be paid commission? Frankly, if I were an agent I would have found another niche by now. Most have, and I would imagine that is why we have so many cruise only agencies these days. Sure they will book the air, but only if you purchase it through the cruise lines. Personally, it has been many years since I even considered calling a travel agent to book strictly an air ticket (or hotel and car rental for that matter). It’s just to easy to go online and do it myself. I would think most people with a computer feel the same way. Ernie Roller, Atlanta, GA
Response:
You need to stop holding back Paul and say what you really think. Out of curiosity, what is your profession? — Charlie Funk Just Cruisin’ Plus 800 888-0922 615 833-0922 www.justcruisinplus.com We prefer the MasterCard card
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> HI Mike, > What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to disclose > their fees — something they hate to do. > You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher > price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the > Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. > To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told > how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to the > Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car > rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this > happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions > and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. > Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. > Paul > P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? > internet booking > Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission.
Response:
I figgered that Paul’s tired diatribe about TA’s would show up pretty quick on this one.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> HI Mike, > What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to disclose > their fees — something they hate to do. > You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher > price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the > Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. > To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told > how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to the > Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car > rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this > happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions > and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. > Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. > Paul > P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? > internet booking > Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission.
Response:
Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost commission.
Response:
HI Mike, What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to disclose their fees — something they hate to do. You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to the Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. Paul P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? internet booking
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission.
Response:
Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost commission.
Response:
HI Mike, What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to disclose their fees — something they hate to do. You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to the Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. Paul P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? internet booking
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission.
Response:
I figgered that Paul’s tired diatribe about TA’s would show up pretty quick on this one.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> HI Mike, > What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to disclose > their fees — something they hate to do. > You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher > price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the > Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. > To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told > how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to the > Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car > rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this > happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions > and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. > Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. > Paul > P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? > internet booking > Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission.
Response:
You need to stop holding back Paul and say what you really think. Out of curiosity, what is your profession? — Charlie Funk Just Cruisin’ Plus 800 888-0922 615 833-0922 www.justcruisinplus.com We prefer the MasterCard card
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> HI Mike, > What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to disclose > their fees — something they hate to do. > You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher > price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the > Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. > To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told > how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to the > Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car > rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this > happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions > and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. > Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. > Paul > P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? > internet booking > Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission.
Response:
There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more and more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. will promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what have we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. Regards Ray
Response:
> Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission.
Mike, You failed to mention the commission caps which have been in place for some time, and if fact negated the 5% in most cases. I recall reading how the world was coming to an end when airlines implemented the commission cap. Many travel agents said they were insulted, that they would no longer do business with the airlines, that the airlines should not even bother with a commission if they were going to cap them. Well, I guess they got their wish. Basically, if any travel agent has not seen this coming for some time now, I have to question how "informed" they are in their business profession. It’s been years since airlines have done anything except tolerate travel agents. I’m not stating whether this is right or wrong, but it has been a fact of life. The good travel agents have moved on, concentrating on the business that does pay commission (basically bundled packages like cruises, tours, etc.). Unfortunately, even this type of travel can be booked directly, and many of these operators are discovering the benefits of bypassing the agent distribution system. It will be many many years before the internet becomes the predominate booking method for cruises and so forth, but we are seeing the first signs. As this method of booking becomes more popular, we can expect cruise and tour operators to begin taking the same steps as the airlines. People, you can make the airlines out to be the bad guys all you want. The fact is, the internet is what has changed the distribution system of this business. Airlines don’t want, or expect everyone to call their reservations staff to make a reservation. They want you to go online to their website and book the tickets via the web. They give you several incentives to do just that, and based on booking revenue for Delta, people are listening. From a strictly business perspective, eliminating commissions in the US based on the current booking environment makes sense. Why pay someone if you don’t have to? Most travel agents have long since given up on promoting the airlines anyway (with good reason), so why should they be paid commission? Frankly, if I were an agent I would have found another niche by now. Most have, and I would imagine that is why we have so many cruise only agencies these days. Sure they will book the air, but only if you purchase it through the cruise lines. Personally, it has been many years since I even considered calling a travel agent to book strictly an air ticket (or hotel and car rental for that matter). It’s just to easy to go online and do it myself. I would think most people with a computer feel the same way. Ernie Roller, Atlanta, GA
Response:
Hi Ray, More Travel Agent BS. We’ve heard all the scare tactics before. How prices will rise! How we’ll all be victimized by the unscrupulous Cruise Lines unless the our Travel Agents save us! The truth is it will be no different that any other travel industry. No single company will control the market just like no one company controls the airline industry or the hotel industry or the rental car industry. When they went direct, what has happened was that they didn’t have to pay commissions and saved money. As a result of competition, they passed on some of the commission savings directly to the consumer. Air fares, hotel rooms and rental cars are substantially lower if booked on-line. Nothing forces anyone to book an airline ticket or hotel room electronically. Just like no one forces you to pump your own gas. You can still get full service, but you’re going to pay more. Tell me Ray, what’s wrong with pumping your own gas or buying your own cruise and paying less – nothing unless, of course your a Travel Agent. Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray
Response:
now sure what Paul was talking about, but right now I can book direct with any cruise line, then transfer it to a TA and save money. So what if the cruise lines are paying the TA a commission, it’s not like they’re giving it to me when I book direct. I might as well have someone with some clout dealing with the cruiselines. — Sheree
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray
Response:
> Personally, it has been many >years since I even considered calling a travel agent to book strictly an air >ticket (or hotel and car rental for that matter). It’s just to easy to go >online and do it myself.
Hi Ernie, Do you still work for an airline? <vbg> Best regards, Ray LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 http://www.lighthousetravel.com
Response:
here in nj we don’t pump our own gas and have some of the lowest gas prices in the country!! Don’t think I’d want to pump my own and pay more like in other states — Sheree
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Ray, > More Travel Agent BS. We’ve heard all the scare tactics before. How prices > will rise! How we’ll all be victimized by the unscrupulous Cruise Lines > unless the our Travel Agents save us! > The truth is it will be no different that any other travel industry. No > single company will control the market just like no one company controls the > airline industry or the hotel industry or the rental car industry. > When they went direct, what has happened was that they didn’t have to pay > commissions and saved money. As a result of competition, they passed on > some of the commission savings directly to the consumer. Air fares, hotel > rooms and rental cars are substantially lower if booked on-line. > Nothing forces anyone to book an airline ticket or hotel room > electronically. Just like no one forces you to pump your own gas. You can > still get full service, but you’re going to pay more. > Tell me Ray, what’s wrong with pumping your own gas or buying your own > cruise and paying less – nothing unless, of course your a Travel Agent. > Paul > There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more > and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. > will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what > have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray
Response:
Charlie, I’m a part time consultant but mostly retired. I’ve been traveling for over 30 years on business and pleasure. I cruise about once every 3 months. Mostly small ships high on service and quality like Seabourn, Windstar or Radisson. I liked Renaissance too, but you know that story. Once in awhile I’ll go mainstream (Holland America is about the best, but to tell the truth their ain’t much difference among the mainstream cruise lines — their food, service and incessant scams no longer make it a pleasant experience). To me traveling on any mainstream cruise line is like traveling coach on any U.S. air carrier. The colors of the ships and planes and the uniforms the crew wear may be a little different, but they’re all overcrowded and the service and food sucks. All my favorites seem to have disappeared (Royal Viking Line, Norwegian American Line, Pan Am Airways, Swissair). But that’s progress, people now want cheap instead of quality. If the price is low enough, then it must be O.K. regardless of how bad the product or service. I guess that’s why Carnival is the biggest cruise line and McDonald’s is the biggest restaurant chain. Good luck in the travel industry Charlie — you’re gonna need it Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You need to stop holding back Paul and say what you really think. Out of > curiosity, what is your profession? > — > Charlie Funk > Just Cruisin’ Plus > 800 888-0922 > 615 833-0922 > www.justcruisinplus.com > We prefer the MasterCard card > HI Mike, > What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to > disclose > their fees — something they hate to do. > You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher > price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the > Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. > To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told > how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to > the > Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car > rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this > happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions > and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. > Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. > Paul > P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? > internet booking > > Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > > commission.
Response:
Didn’t someone once say that he has a Used Car Lot. Talk about making a lot of Cal Ford Lido Deck Cruises – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You need to stop holding back Paul and say what you really think. Out of >curiosity, what is your profession? >– >Charlie Funk >Just Cruisin’ Plus >800 888-0922 >615 833-0922 >www.justcruisinplus.com >We prefer the MasterCard card > HI Mike, > What’s finally happening is that Travel Agents are being forced to >disclose > their fees — something they hate to do. > You can still book through a Travel Agent, but you’ll pay a much higher > price than if you booked electronically on-line. The difference is the > Travel Agent’s fee which is no longer hidden. > To bad it doesn’t work that way for cruises where the consumer isn’t told > how of his tariff goes in to a fee and kickback from the cruise line to >the > Agent. But soon enough Cruse Lines, just like airlines, hotels and car > rentals will recognize the costs saving of electronic booking. Once this > happens and the public sees how much they’re really paying in commissions > and how little they get for it the money, it’ll be bye bye Travel Agents. > Then we’ll be rid of these parasites for good. > Paul > P.S. Are you related to Ray by chance? > internet booking > > Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > > commission.
Response:
> Do you still work for an airline? <vbg>
I do, but I’ve in the travel industry long before my airline experience. I’m not defending the airlines, but stating this new business culture has been around for some time. Commission caps were the first step, and any smart agents should have been taking active steps to realign their business at that point. As I stated, I can’t say how many agents were so appalled when caps were introduced that they stated "why pay commissions at all?". Guess what, their question has been answered. I believe it’s only a matter of time before tour operators and cruise lines follow in the steps of airlines, hotels and car rentals companies with direct online bookings. Cruise lines have already developed expensive software to allow direct bookings online from their websites. I’m sure they look at this as a great undeveloped revenue potential regardless of what they say publicly. As computers become as much of a household item as TV’s, and users become more savvy, the online booking trend will only accelerate. The sad losers in this business will be the smaller ma and pa travel agencies. Large conglomerate agencies and consortiums are for the most part unaffected, as they have their commissions for airlines and tour operators protected and set in a contract. As stated by someone earlier, America is becoming a country where the small business can no longer survive. It will either be eaten up by someone larger, or forced to go out of business all together. This is now a country of mega-plex movies theaters and Wal-Mart’s, not the corner store and local movie house. Is this a good thing? I’ll let you be the judge. Ernie Roller, Atlanta, GA
Response:
I agree with Ernie on this one. I usually fly Delta only and always book on line. It’s quick, easy and I get an extra 1000 sky miles for doing this. As Ernie stated, any TA that did not seen this coming and make changes in their business should close their doors anyway. Gordon
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Delta Airlines announced that they are no longer giving a 5% discount to > TA’s booking flights for their customers. So, does that mean if you > book through Delta, you’ll get 5% off? Noooooooo. What it means is > that Delta is going to save $3 million/year, and if you book through a > TA, you can expect to pay higher prices to make up for their lost > commission. > Mike, > You failed to mention the commission caps which have been in place for some > time, and if fact negated the 5% in most cases. > I recall reading how the world was coming to an end when airlines > implemented the commission cap. Many travel agents said they were insulted, > that they would no longer do business with the airlines, that the airlines > should not even bother with a commission if they were going to cap them. > Well, I guess they got their wish. > Basically, if any travel agent has not seen this coming for some time now, I > have to question how "informed" they are in their business profession. It’s > been years since airlines have done anything except tolerate travel agents. > I’m not stating whether this is right or wrong, but it has been a fact of > life. The good travel agents have moved on, concentrating on the business > that does pay commission (basically bundled packages like cruises, tours, > etc.). Unfortunately, even this type of travel can be booked directly, and > many of these operators are discovering the benefits of bypassing the agent > distribution system. It will be many many years before the internet becomes > the predominate booking method for cruises and so forth, but we are seeing > the first signs. As this method of booking becomes more popular, we can > expect cruise and tour operators to begin taking the same steps as the > airlines. > People, you can make the airlines out to be the bad guys all you want. The > fact is, the internet is what has changed the distribution system of this > business. Airlines don’t want, or expect everyone to call their > reservations staff to make a reservation. They want you to go online to > their website and book the tickets via the web. They give you several > incentives to do just that, and based on booking revenue for Delta, people > are listening. From a strictly business perspective, eliminating > commissions in the US based on the current booking environment makes sense. > Why pay someone if you don’t have to? Most travel agents have long since > given up on promoting the airlines anyway (with good reason), so why should > they be paid commission? Frankly, if I were an agent I would have found > another niche by now. Most have, and I would imagine that is why we have so > many cruise only agencies these days. Sure they will book the air, but only > if you purchase it through the cruise lines. Personally, it has been many > years since I even considered calling a travel agent to book strictly an air > ticket (or hotel and car rental for that matter). It’s just to easy to go > online and do it myself. I would think most people with a computer feel the > same way. > Ernie Roller, > Atlanta, GA
Response:
> Didn’t someone once say that he has a Used Car Lot. Talk about making a lot of
I think that was some other troll. Paul the troll never recovered from the failure of Singer Link which was an aerospace company. He lost his mind after that went under. — Charles
Response:
Really….. Used to travel a lot to Singer Link Systems up in Silver Springs when I was with GE many years ago. They built a huge simulator for us and I was the Purchasing Type. Lots of really boring meetings as I remember. Cal Ford Lido Deck Cruises – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Didn’t someone once say that he has a Used Car Lot. Talk about making a lot of >I think that was some other troll. Paul the troll never recovered from >the failure of Singer Link which was an aerospace company. He lost his >mind after that went under. >– >Charles
Response:
> Really….. Used to travel a lot to Singer Link Systems up in Silver > Springs when I was with GE many years ago. They built a huge > simulator for us and I was the Purchasing Type. Lots of really boring > meetings as I remember.
You might have met him. I had a few friends that worked there. I was over in that area the other day getting my vehicle emissions test. The test place is on the same street. He is going to have a cow though because you said "Silver Springs" instead of the correct "Silver Spring". When Lee Lindquist did that a few years ago Slinski almost had a stroke online. — Charles
Response:
>You might have met him. I had a few friends that worked there. I was >over in that area the other day getting my vehicle emissions test. The >test place is on the same street. He is going to have a cow though >because you said "Silver Springs" instead of the correct "Silver >Spring". When Lee Lindquist did that a few years ago Slinski almost had >a stroke online.
You are correct, the name of the city is "Silver Spring" cause there was only one Spring originally I guess. We made so many trips there though and stayed in so many hotels and motels that we internally called it "Silver Springs" because of all the bad beds we slept in……. Cal Ford Lido Deck Cruises
Response:
Paul- Swissair is still there. At least their website is. jeff
Response:
Sheree, I have a great idea. You do all the work, book the cruise direct, and then transfer the booking to me! I can do nothing and collect a commission just as well as your Travel Agent. In fact if you do that, I promise to send one of those cheap bottles of champagne and a card to your cabin just like a Travel Agent. What do ya think Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> now sure what Paul was talking about, but right now I can book direct with > any cruise line, then transfer it to a TA and save money. So what if the > cruise lines are paying the TA a commission, it’s not like they’re giving it > to me when I book direct. I might as well have someone with some clout > dealing with the cruiselines. > — > Sheree > There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more > and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. > will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what > have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray
Response:
Interesting about NJ and gas. We just drove home through NJ last night — filled up at the Joyce Kilmer rest stop on GSP. Cost per gallon was 5 cents more than in PA, MD, NY, and MA stations along the freeways. And for this extra price we had the pleasure of having to wait 5 minutes while one of several bored-looking attendants looked at our car pulling up to the pump and debating over which of them was going to pump the gas. When the gas was done pumping, the attendant was nowhere to be seen (no other customers around either). He finally showed up when we got out of the car and started to remove the nozzle from our own tank. What should have taken a few minutes to put $12.00 worth of gas in our car took nearly 15. If this is an improvement, I’ll continue to pump my own. And, incidentally, we have pumped our own gas in NJ — just not allowed to, apparently, at this particular rest stop. Back on-topic, however, I hate to see good TAs being squeezed out of business by this continuous attitude from the people in the airline industry. On the cruises we’ve taken, I’ve done a lot of my homework ahead of time on line in terms of prices, itineraries, etc., and then have worked closely with the TA to "customize" what we want out of our trip. Unfortunately, our favorite TA has left the business, and the office where she used to work has informed us they will only be dealing with corporate clients from here on out. CCPetersen
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> here in nj we don’t pump our own gas and have some of the lowest gas prices > in the country!! > Don’t think I’d want to pump my own and pay more like in other states > — > Sheree
Response:
are you a licensed ta?! Actually a good TA does a lot, when there’s problems there’s someone to intervene, they’ll be able to get lower pricing when it’s availalbe (try getting the cruiseline to do that!), they act as your advocate etc etc So if I can save money by transferring the booking to the TA (and many of us do that), and have them as an advocate, why would I want to pay more and book direct? — Sheree
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sheree, > I have a great idea. > You do all the work, book the cruise direct, and then transfer the booking > to me! I can do nothing and collect a commission just as well as your > Travel Agent. > In fact if you do that, I promise to send one of those cheap bottles of > champagne and a card to your cabin just like a Travel Agent. > What do ya think > Paul > now sure what Paul was talking about, but right now I can book direct with > any cruise line, then transfer it to a TA and save money. So what if the > cruise lines are paying the TA a commission, it’s not like they’re giving > it > to me when I book direct. I might as well have someone with some clout > dealing with the cruiselines. > — > Sheree > > There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more > and > > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. > My > > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. > will > > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what > have > > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > > Regards > > Ray
Response:
Ernie, It’s not sad, that businesses that can not compete go under, it’s what this country is all about. Find a better way, grow your business, find a nitch market, or you’re out of business. It’s happened to large businesses (Montgomery Wards, Pan Am) as well as small businesses. In fact small business is thriving (the % of the U.S. workforce employed by business is increasing), especially in the service industry, but they’re doing it with innovation and hard work. The ma and pa Travel Agents (and other businesses) deserve to go out of business if they did nothing to remain competitive. As for booking automation of the Cruise Industry, you’re correct they are working on it but it has a way to go. Once the big three (Carnival, Princes, RCCL) jointly develop a booking engine like the airlines did (Orbitz) the better off we’ll be. They we can realistically compare the cost and benefits of direct booking vs. the use of Travel Agents. We can’t do that now because Travel Agents do not disclose their fee. Paul We’ve heard it before, when Wal Mart or Home Dept comes to town then the mom and pop stores are , offer something
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you still work for an airline? <vbg> > I do, but I’ve in the travel industry long before my airline experience. > I’m not defending the airlines, but stating this new business culture has > been around for some time. Commission caps were the first step, and any > smart agents should have been taking active steps to realign their business > at that point. As I stated, I can’t say how many agents were so appalled > when caps were introduced that they stated "why pay commissions at all?". > Guess what, their question has been answered. > I believe it’s only a matter of time before tour operators and cruise lines > follow in the steps of airlines, hotels and car rentals companies with > direct online bookings. Cruise lines have already developed expensive > software to allow direct bookings online from their websites. I’m sure they > look at this as a great undeveloped revenue potential regardless of what > they say publicly. As computers become as much of a household item as TV’s, > and users become more savvy, the online booking trend will only accelerate. > The sad losers in this business will be the smaller ma and pa travel > agencies. Large conglomerate agencies and consortiums are for the most part > unaffected, as they have their commissions for airlines and tour operators > protected and set in a contract. As stated by someone earlier, America is > becoming a country where the small business can no longer survive. It will > either be eaten up by someone larger, or forced to go out of business all > together. This is now a country of mega-plex movies theaters and > Wal-Mart’s, not the corner store and local movie house. Is this a good > thing? I’ll let you be the judge. > Ernie Roller, > Atlanta, GA
Response:
Jeff, You are correct. Swissair is back — at least temporarily. They were shut down after 9/11 but bailed out by the Swiss government as they are the country’s national airline. Like Amtrak, they’re now heavily subsidized and cutting corners to reduce cost. They’ve begun reducing fares to attract more passengers but as a result of lower tariffs, they are also reducing quality and service (something Swissair was know for). Bottom line is the new Swissair ain’t like the old Swissair. They now nickle and dime you for things that you took for granted and part of the package (you now pay for beverages in some classes). Hell, I expect Art Auctions next. Sounds just like the cruise industry doesn’t it. Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Paul- > Swissair is still there. At least their website is. > jeff
Response:
Hi Paul Thanks for the response. Nope not a Travel Agent I am an early retiree; part time "devils advocate" Regards Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Ray, > More Travel Agent BS. We’ve heard all the scare tactics before. How prices > will rise! How we’ll all be victimized by the unscrupulous Cruise Lines > unless the our Travel Agents save us! > The truth is it will be no different that any other travel industry. No > single company will control the market just like no one company controls the > airline industry or the hotel industry or the rental car industry. > When they went direct, what has happened was that they didn’t have to pay > commissions and saved money. As a result of competition, they passed on > some of the commission savings directly to the consumer. Air fares, hotel > rooms and rental cars are substantially lower if booked on-line. > Nothing forces anyone to book an airline ticket or hotel room > electronically. Just like no one forces you to pump your own gas. You can > still get full service, but you’re going to pay more. > Tell me Ray, what’s wrong with pumping your own gas or buying your own > cruise and paying less – nothing unless, of course your a Travel Agent. > Paul > There is a serious issue here that warrant discussion. Undoubtedly more > and > more travel business will be conducted over the net; simple economics. My > fear for cruising is that the big players, Carnival RCI Princess etc. > will > promote the demise of the TA through online booking services. Then what > have > we left? a cosy cartel totally controlling the market?. > Regards > Ray