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creative charging
Question:
Hi JP, Thanks for your input. >It usually takes two to bicker… and from your response, I see you are not >unarmed. 
I now find that if I tell a client what I think of them, it has a more positive outcome than "handling" them. >I am not going to react to your anecdotal evidence because it does not >necessarily reflect the true nature of your operating environment.
I used to target and go after picked clients, but found this costly and time consuming, so altered the marketing so that clients would come to me when they are ready. So I’m not choosing clients. Worked OK, until recently. During the recession good people who were difficult or expensive were laid off, those left hired people who did not threaten them, in turn they hired people who did not threaten them. So there has been a reverse evolution. I get calls like "you were recommended to us by the direct marketing association, do you do direct marketing?" and "we saw you ad in Direct Response, do you write sales letters?" They are very worried how much, and that is the focus of the conversation. Talking about what I can do for them and results is seen as sales speil. Competition is journalists, who charge little and write bland. Clients like this as there are no difficult questions or digging for more information, and they don’t get unsettling copy which provokes response. This is comfortable and they feel they are lowering risk. Also creative is one area they can cost control. >While your >original statement : " People are unwilling to pay for success." may very >well ring true for your, I doubt it rings true for the industry as a whole.
Agencies derive income from commission on print, media, lists etc, so their real source of remuneration is hidden. >You appear to be caught in a limbo between the creatives who go the extra >mile to give the client what they want regardless of actual merit (from a >creative perspective)
and from a marketing perspective. I tell clients from the outset that I only care what their customers think, not what they think. Also when they say "what we want to say is" I correct them to "what our customer wants to hear is". I try to work in partnership with the client, but protect them as much as possible. Any changes suggested are considered on the basis of "will this lower or increase response or make no difference". The client should know the product best, so with a good client grilling really works. >and the creatives who insist on taking control of the >project, put their reputation on the line with every project and walk out if >the client insists on interfering with the creative elements of the project.
Depends on level of interference! Also in between completion of copy and print, there is no control and client can and often does mess things up. >Both have their place and do very well in the marketing community. The former >understands their client is also paying for ego gratification and the latter >insists on delivering success regardless of the client’s opinions. >Both deliver value to the client.
The client should be paying to get results. I sometimes point out that the ideal is to wave a magic wand and just get orders without the palaver, and we are trying to get close to that. If the client is just pandered to results will suffer and the client won’t get the results they want. A factory could close and hundreds lose their livlihoods just through ego gratification. >One aspect of your post which puzzles me is how do you get involved with >marketing and mailing issues when you promote yourself as a freelance >copywriter.
People would not hire a "marketing and creative consultant" as the need is not clear. Also I’m not a list broker etc and do not want the liability. What happens, even with large clients, is you go in as the writer, ask questions like "what do you want people to do when they receive this?" "what offer are you making?", "what are the benifits" etc and find a void, or a plan which is crazy. No matter how good the creative work it is going to fail if the basics are not there. >Clients tend to ignore the advice of a professional unless it is >within the scope of their expertise… common sense does not necessarily >apply… perception does.
If you walk and quack like a duck… The difficulty is people want an easy life. Using creative, clever marketing techniques is a hassle. >I would have thought your clients should be agencies involved in marketing >and other service providers requiring written copy and not decision makers of >end user client companies (i.e. ultimate consumers of the service).
Both. Some agencies, you have to get the work through. One said, the client and customers will like this, but we don’t. Many agencies have a "do not bother the client" policy or second guess the client’s reaction to the client’s detriment. I love bouncing ideas off the client, sparking them off and asking lots of questions. This results in better work and results, there is frequently a hidden nugget, which makes a huge difference. Usually, being distanced enough to see the wood for the trees, one can point out valuable new opportunities, solve additional problems or save the client a lot of money. >Maybe this is common practice in the U.K., I am in no position to comment on >this aspect of business in the U.K. I wouldn’t mind it if other U.K. >creatives and agency managers commented on your opinions.
The situation with US clients I’ve worked with is totally different, they value and recognise the contribution and generally don’t get in the way of making a sale. >I suggest you may want to rethink your own marketing strategies
I’m diversyfying into another area. >and either >scale up to a full service marketing agency (possibly by joining a firm
They either want bland, easy to sell, or hire ex art school people. Someone with marketing training who is a creative is a freak. There are "creatives" and there are "suits". Marketing is seen as getting in the way of the creative work. > or in >association with other creatives) or scale down to being a star creative >within the copywriting community and focus on serving the needs of agencies >and other users needing quality copy.
Copywriting is seen as a commodity by many. There is a relaunch plan, but that is on hold. I’ve been working in this area since around 84 and the focus has been building other people’s businesses, with great success. The question comes "what about me?" I’ve always wanted a catalog and the net makes it possible. Look out for storeshop.com and discountbargains.com, I’ll still take on copy but these will provide a change while allowing unrestrained or compromised creative and marketing. >By the way, this is not intended to be a value judgement of any kind
People here know me, those who don’t can check me out at http://www.copywriter.co.uk >but >rather a few suggestions on possible alternatives for exploring potentially >more lucrative areas… part of the learning process.
If you don’t want response, you don’t use response media! Thanks, John John Block Creative, marketing aware work which Freelance Copywriter talks rather than blandly bores, actively promotes your product, International and aims to be the best Welcomes Dollar and Sterling, in your market sector.
Response:
> Hi John:
Looks like things across the pond are just a tad dicey. When I boil down our success in direct response to the "mature" market, it always comes down to creative. I use that word to describe the total strategic package, not just what comes off the art server. It is the creative power of a team of people that guide us. Not hardware and software, but great ideas. Sounds like you offer a good deal of well thought strategic advice that gets ignored. So what gives? How come folks pay you and ignore your expertise? Politics? Guarding the local turf? If you can prove results, then you should be able to get your price. Steve — Find customers and keep them! Marketing to the 50+ segment with results-driven creative. National accounts. Portfolio, e-newsletter, tips, insights and award-winning strategies for Marketing professionals. http://www.eamnet.com Evergreen Advertising & Marketing
Response:
>I tend to disagree with your statement: ><<People are unwilling to pay for success. It’s all about bickering >about small amounts of money and rubbish rather than focusing on goals.>> >People pay huge amounts of money for success. Witness the leading movie stars >and sport players.
We are talking about the marketing community here. I’ve actually got chased twice by a talent agent. All very attractive. They negotiate, look after payment, give worldwide representation and much more. The deal killer? The contract means they get a percent whether they get the project or I do, and they don’t guarantee to get projects! >I suggest the issue with creatives is the question of "who takes the risk for >a given assignment?"
The creative part is only a tiny, insignificant part of the cost, with media, lists, print, mail etc. I always take a risk whether the client will pay or not! >If your client assumes the risk(s) for the success of your creative work
The creative work is one part of the mix. Clients, against specific advice send things out untargeted, or to a dopey list, even when another is suggested, then wonder when things don’t work. Some destroy the offer. >On the other hand, if you were willing to assume the risk for your creative >effort (i.e. results guaranteed… no results no pay), you will find many >takers willing to pay you much more for your efforts.
No they either bitch "why should I give you a share in my business, or pay you more" or "structure" the agreement, so I can’t make much. Also I have to rely on clients taking advice on the marketing. For example, one client I invested a lot of time and effort in wanted to do leafleting. I advised getting the profile of the customers of a competitor product. (For UKer’s via TGI). Then getting a leafletting company to drop to that profile. The client just did the leaflets totally untargeted. I was on a structured percent and lost out, even though I gave training and details including contact names and numbers. One of my greatest failures was a heating product. The creative was amazing. The offer was great. The mailing was (against advice) in a heatwave! >If you have a proven track record, you are in a position to select those >clients with the "right" frame of mind or to charge the ones who don’t many >times your normal fee making it much more palatable to put up with their >"unique" personalities.
Interestingly, US clients are far more willing to share and take advice than UK ones. Here we get when something works well: 1) Success, come back, continue bitching, our coming back was your reward. 2) Success, no come back, ask someone else for low price on promise of getting rest of business if success. 3) Success, we have enough money now to hire a proper agency. Part of the background to all this is, as well as making clients money, the fee is almost always already potentialy repaid many many times over in suggested savings. It seems that creative is one of the few areas in direct market where clients can control price. It’s irrelevant to the total budget, clients see it as a commodity, so shop around on price. They end up with the results they deserve. John John Block Creative, marketing aware work which Freelance Copywriter talks rather than blandly bores, actively promotes your product, International and aims to be the best Welcomes Dollar and Sterling, in your market sector.
Response:
Hello John, It usually takes two to bicker… and from your response, I see you are not unarmed. I am not going to react to your anecdotal evidence because it does not necessarily reflect the true nature of your operating environment. While your original statement : " People are unwilling to pay for success." may very well ring true for your, I doubt it rings true for the industry as a whole. You appear to be caught in a limbo between the creatives who go the extra mile to give the client what they want regardless of actual merit (from a creative perspective) and the creatives who insist on taking control of the project, put their reputation on the line with every project and walk out if the client insists on interfering with the creative elements of the project. Both have their place and do very well in the marketing community. The former understands their client is also paying for ego gratification and the latter insists on delivering success regardless of the client’s opinions. Both deliver value to the client. One aspect of your post which puzzles me is how do you get involved with marketing and mailing issues when you promote yourself as a freelance copywriter. Clients tend to ignore the advice of a professional unless it is within the scope of their expertise… common sense does not necessarily apply… perception does. I would have thought your clients should be agencies involved in marketing and other service providers requiring written copy and not decision makers of end user client companies (i.e. ultimate consumers of the service). Maybe this is common practice in the U.K., I am in no position to comment on this aspect of business in the U.K. I wouldn’t mind it if other U.K. creatives and agency managers commented on your opinions. I suggest you may want to rethink your own marketing strategies and either scale up to a full service marketing agency (possibly by joining a firm or in association with other creatives) or scale down to being a star creative within the copywriting community and focus on serving the needs of agencies and other users needing quality copy. By the way, this is not intended to be a value judgement of any kind but rather a few suggestions on possible alternatives for exploring potentially more lucrative areas… part of the learning process. An opinion among many, J.P. Solyom KS Business Development